Imitation of Ottoman 5 piastres as a Standard circulation coin of Monaco? [solved]

N#355901

Shall it be moved to Exonumia?

It certainly doesn't belong in the Monaco sector. They were struck IN Monaco but not FOR Monaco. And apparently they were fraudulently minted, so not legal tender I guess? And then moving them to exonumia seems a good idea.

Poke @HerveMonaco 

I dont agree.

The coin was minted in the Monaco workshop at the Prince's Palace, even if it is fraudulent, it must remain in the Monaco mints.

In this case it would be necessary to move all the coins produced for the Levant, which is out of the question for me.

Since the new version of the site, I find that there are many questions that arise, which did not arise before.

I agree Trade coinage should remain in the mother issuer

Question here is not that in my opinion, but the “fraudulent" meaning; if they were official imitations for International Trade, then no problem to keep them there; if they were private illegal issues, it's another thing

Certainly we have many examples in the catalog of coins minted in one place to look similar to the coins of another nearby place (or even a farther place).  But often those coins retain inscriptions identifying them to the issuing mnt.  So we keep these with the issuer.  The liards of Desana, lion thalers of Bozzolo, etc. all come to mind.

But in this case (if I understand correctly), it appears the coin is trying to imitate exactly the coin of the other place, with the unusual circumstance that the counterfeiter is the official mint of Monaco.

As it fits the definition of a counterfeit (rather than the “imitations” mentioned above) I agree with the comments that it belongs in Exonumia (even if it is an unusual example).

I don't agree … it is mentioned on the Gadoury ... it should stay with the coins of Monaco

HerveMonaco

I don't agree … it is mentioned on the Gadoury ... it should stay with the coins of Monaco

please can you photograph the Gadoury explanation ? I don't have this entry in my edition apparently (119a > I just have 119 for Monaco which is a 40 Francs of Honoré V)

@HerveMonaco peux tu aussi expliquer à quoi correspond le M C ici ? On le voit quelque part sur la pièce contrefaite ? 

Voila la photo du Gadoury édition 2023

Pour le MC après la date … je viens de corriger … la marque d'atelier n'apparait pas sur la monnaie

Thanks

If we cannot easily distinguish the counterfeits from the real coins, then it should be sorted as contemporary counterfeit (it's not an imitation as Ted explained)

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HerveMonaco

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Je ne comprends pas quel est le probleme 

La pièce est toujours dans Monaco :

Je ne monte pas sur mes grands chevaux … comme je l'ai écrit la nouvelle version de numista ne me convient pas … c'est tout