Germany makes arrests over theft of giant solid-gold coin [solved]

There was a post with the original story here, but I could not find it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40579867

Interesting......
But sadly, the PRECIOUS NUMISMATIC TREASURE WAS MELTED......

Quote: "Jasanche"​There was a post with the original story here, but I could not find it.

​https://en.numista.com/forum/topic58528.html

Quote: "Subha Barua"​Interesting......
​But sadly, the PRECIOUS NUMISMATIC TREASURE WAS MELTED......

​Rather this overweight metal disk than a centuries old gold coin with lots of history.

Anyway, they got 'zee Germans' on the case. Where is Derrick when you need him.

Quote: "jokinen"​

Quote: "Subha Barua"​Interesting......
​​But sadly, the PRECIOUS NUMISMATIC TREASURE WAS MELTED......

​​Rather this overweight metal disk than a centuries old gold coin with lots of history.
​
​Anyway, they got 'zee Germans' on the case. Where is Derrick when you need him.
​
​

​

I'm not so sure it has already been melted. They may have decided to wait a year or two ─ or more.

In addition, I don't think you can just melt "coins" of that size in your basement. Obviously they had already made arrangements with some goldsmith given that the whole theft operation was performed very competently ─ not that I approve, of course!

However, from another perspective, several people are involved... and need to get their share or be paid in cash. Perhaps they started cutting small chunks out. That must be an ugly sight... Of course, it's worse if you think that thing is really a coin (I don't think it is).

Quote: "Camerinvs"... Of course, it's worse if you think that thing is really a coin (I don't think it is).

Just curious: ​it was issued by a government, made of metal and it has a denomination, why would it not be a coin?

It was not meant to be circulated, but neither a lot of commemoratives and proofs...but they are still "coins", right?

Quote: "Jasanche"​

Quote: "Camerinvs"... Of course, it's worse if you think that thing is really a coin (I don't think it is).

​Just curious: ​it was issued by a government, made of metal and it has a denomination, why would it not be a coin?
​
​It was not meant to be circulated, but neither a lot of commemoratives and proofs...but they are still "coins", right?​

​I consider none of those to be coins. They are just a money-grabbing scheme. It is no wonder that the two largest gold "coins" were produced by Australia and Canada, the worst offenders when it comes to pollute the market with numismatic souvenirs. To me it is about the function, not the shape (metallic disk) nor the name (coin).

QuoteTo me it is about the function, not the shape (metallic disk) nor the name (coin).

​Interesting. And I agree with you. There appears to be a line, but where is it?

For example,
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic61099.html

Do you, then, consider Presidential dollar coins before 2012 genuine "coins" and after 2012 NOT "coins"?

Quote: "Camerinvs"​

Quote: "Jasanche"​
​

Quote: "Camerinvs"... Of course, it's worse if you think that thing is really a coin (I don't think it is).

​​Just curious: ​it was issued by a government, made of metal and it has a denomination, why would it not be a coin?
​​
​​It was not meant to be circulated, but neither a lot of commemoratives and proofs...but they are still "coins", right?​

​​I consider none of those to be coins. They are just a money-grabbing scheme. It is no wonder that the two largest gold "coins" were produced by Australia and Canada, the worst offenders when it comes to pollute the market with numismatic souvenirs. To me it is about the function, not the shape (metallic disk) nor the name (coin).

Interesting to see Australia getting a dishonorable mention. I have no interest in these tacky souvenirs ​so it's not a subject I really follow closely. Are they getting into the Liberia league now?

I would say that the Presidential Dollars qualify as a legitimate coin, even the post 2012 issues. They were introduced to meet the needs of commerce, rather than the sordid ambitions of the Mint's marketing division and can be used to buy a pack of fags at any gas station.

It's actually an interesting topic and one which we have discussed at length many times before reaching a broad agreement. The question of what constitutes a coin must be considered alongside what defines a country. Here's a link you might find useful which gives some idea of the background on the current thinking on the subject. We even have a name for the process

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic44193.html

In Canada the 50¢ is also an ambiguous case (I had a post on that in May in the "Numista Catalog" forum). Now they sell them only in rolls and at a premium, but every year there is a series which is categorized as "circulation finish" in the Mint reports, and they are listed along with coins that are actually circulating. I know the banks can (and do) refuse payment in all our embarrassing cartoon coins, but I don't think they can refuse payment in 50¢ coins ─ they are circulating legal tender.

As for Australia, yes, and even worse than Liberia. I had a post not long ago; in the catalogue...

► Australia has 1238 coins, 1068 of which are non-circulating;
► Canada has 1603 coins, / 1349 of which are non-circulating;
► Liberia has 555 coins, 380 of which are non-circulating.

Yup. Even the Isle of Man has become a bit player, compared to Australia and Canada.