French coin and issuing authority confusion

I am trying to label my French coins with the empire or republic in power, at the link you can see there are coins being minted for the Provisional Government of the French Republic from 1941-1947 before it was created and after it was dissolved. There are also coins minted for the Fourth Republic (1946-1958) during the Vichy Regime in 1941-'57. This is all really confusing to me, can someone clear me up on this?
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=france_section&r=1944&ct=coin&tb=y&tc=y&tn=y&tp=y&tt=y&cat=y&ru=&ca=3&no=&v=&d=&i=&a=&dg=&m=&f=&t=&w=&u=&g=&se=&c=&wi=&sw=

I was struggling with some questions on the same topic.

It has always struck me that the coins for occupied France and Vichy France had exactly the same dimensions and were minted at the very same mints. One would not expect that for a divided country, with the prevailing sentiments at the time.

And the coins being equal in dimensions must have resulted in occupation coinage venturing into Vichy France and Vichy coinage venturing into occupied France.

Very peculiar situation indeed. I hope someone can shed some light on this.

EDIT: I drew attention to the question on the French forum.

Hello

https://www.secondeguerre.net/hisetpo/po/hp_vichyrevolution.html#:~:text=Le%20Mar%C3%A9chal%20P%C3%A9tain%2C%20qui%20dirigea,Conseil%20le%2016%20juin%201940.&text=Le%20nouveau%20Gouvernement%20s%27installe,1940%20la%20%C2%AB%20R%C3%A9volution%20Nationale%20%C2%BB.

Vichy period is 1940-1944 !

Bonjour à tous,
Il y a de la confusion entre frappe de la monnaie et circulation de la monnaie:
La capitulation de la France date de Juin 1940, la République française (le parlement) se suicide en votant les pleins pouvoirs au Maréchal Pétain.
Celui ci arrive au pouvoir soutenu par l'occupant allemand et les partis d'extrême droite Français ennemis jurés de la République et de ses valeurs.
Mais pour gérer un pays il faut des moyens, de la monnaie. pour cela on a besoin de métaux. la monnaie est aussi un outil de propagande politique.
le problème c'est que l'occupant s'accapare les métaux considérés comme indispensables à l'effort de guerre allemand.
Le gouvernement de Vichy tolère la circulation des pièces frappées avec les symboles de la République parce qu'il n'a pas le choix et les moyens, mais dans le même temps il fait frapper de nouvelles pièces en Aluminium, fer ou zinc avec les symboles de son idéologie politique.
Sur ces nouvelles pièces apparait la nouvelle devise du gouvernement de Vichy, Travail Famille Patrie au lieu de Liberté Egalité Fraternité et les mots de République Française disparaissent au profit de la formule Etat Français.
C'est donc à la fois une question économique et une question politique. Ces monnaies circuleront ensemble durant l'occupation mais les pièces républicaine ne seront plus fabriquées de 1941 à 1944.
Pour les mêmes raisons les pièces du régime de vichy continueront d'être utilisées en France après le libération mais elles ne seront plus fabriquées. Progressivement les monnaies de Vichy seront remplacées par de nouvelles pièces reprenant les anciens symboles de la République Française. Voila rapidement..

Good morning all, There is confusion between minting money and circulation of money: The capitulation of France dates from June 1940, the French Republic (the parliament) commits suicide by voting full powers to Marshal Pétain. This one comes to power supported by the German occupier and the French far-right parties sworn enemies of the Republic and its values. But to run a country you need money, money. for that we need metals. money is also a tool of political propaganda. the problem is that the occupier monopolizes the metals considered essential to the German war effort. The Vichy government tolerates the circulation of coins minted with the symbols of the Republic because it does not have the choice and the means, but at the same time it has new aluminum, iron or zinc coins minted with the symbols. of its political ideology. On these new coins appears the new motto of the Vichy government, Travail Famille Patrie instead of Liberté Egalité Fraternité and the words of the French Republic disappear in favor of the French State formula. It is therefore both an economic and a political question. These coins will circulate together during the occupation but the Republican coins will no longer be produced from 1941 to 1944. For the same reasons, the parts of the Vichy regime will continue to be used in France after the liberation, but they will no longer be manufactured. Gradually Vichy coins will be replaced by new coins incorporating the old symbols of the French Republic. Here it is quickly

Thanks, lungta, this was very clarifying for me.

Hello everyone,
a few more details, there is in the first post a confusion concerning the dates of the different governments in France during the period of the occupation.
June 40 French defeat and vote of full powers to Marshal Pétain.
June 18 call from General De Gaule to resistance in France and join him in London to continue the fight.
The French in London are not officially recognized as the only legitimate government of France by their Anglo-American allies.
1944 Allied troops disembark in Normandy and De Gaule arrives three days later.
Speech by De Gaul in Bayeux city who founded the French provisional government.
Start of administrative and political cleansing. All those who collaborated with Germany and the Vichy regime were dismissed and replaced by members of the provisional government.
46/47 elections in France and start of the fourth republic.
Best regards
Lungta.

Some additional information for English speaking Numista members

Rally of the colonies to free France 1940

In 1940, after General de Gaulle's call for resistance and the signing of the armistice with Nazi Germany by Marshal Pétain, the French colonies were called upon to make a choice.

.

It was the New Hebrides, a Franco-British condominium in the Pacific, and Pondicherry (India) that first joined de Gaulle, on June 20, then on July 20, 1940, followed by Governor Éboué's Tchad on August 26.
The other colonies of French Equatorial Africa choose resistance while the AOF (French West Africa), Indochina, the colonies of the Indian Ocean, Wallis-and-Futuna, the colonies of the Atlantic still remain faithful to Vichy in this year 1940.

The rallies to Free France are generally explained by the strong personality of the governors who lead these colonies such as Henri Sautot in the New Hebrides or Félix Éboué in Tchad or soldiers such as Colonels Leclerc (Cameroon) and Larminat (French Congo). The rallying to Free France is officially announced by the governors to the population.

Other rallies to Free France after 1940:

- June-July 1941: the territories of the Levant (Lebanon and Syria)
- December 24, 1941: Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon

Liberation after Allied landings 1942 and accession to Free France

- May 27, 1942: Wallis and Futuna
- November 28, 1942: Reunion
- December 14, 1942: Madagascar
- December 28, 1942: the French Somali Coast (Djibouti)
- March 16, 1943: Guyana
- July 3, 1943: the West Indies
1944 Liberation of France
1945 Fall of Nazy Germany
End