Elongated coins [solved]

Hello,

We had a lot of discussion about Elongated pennies over the years but I just realized that’s no one submitted an official request to add them to the catalog. We have now 2 good new features, 1 you can down vote a request and 2 we have now an Exonumia catalog.

so I would like to see these touristic items closely related to numismatic in our Exonumia catalog, why? Because they intend to replace touristic medals or banknotes.

We can argue they are post mint damaged coins, and in some way they are but, they are more, you use a coin to print a medal and that transform this old coin as a souvenir because you made it yourself.

I’ve always wondered about them but it is not limited to just pennies because several months ago I watched a video that there is a US Elongated quarter machine that flattens quarters and the person in the video was investigating the quarters that go into the machine because he put in the machine a silver quarter to see what happens to them.😢


Here’s the video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=14bYI7mLBws

hmmmm....understand your position but if PMD coins are allowed as exonumia where does it stop? Weren't some painted coins just removed from the catalogue because they were considered PMD? Maybe I could add this coin. I call it a railroad nickel.

Quote: "rsirian1"​hmmmm....understand your position but if PMD coins are allowed as exonumia where does it stop? Weren't some painted coins just removed from the catalogue because they were considered PMD? Maybe I could add this coin. I call it a railroad nickel.
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​Sorry but that's not my point, if you want this one to be added to the catalogue please submit a request.
I refer to Elongated coins, you can agree or disagree with the request but keep to subject please.

I quite like pressed pennies, and have a few of them...

Ignoring the argument about damaged coins: -

Another problem is you would have to catalogue designs rather than items, as the same image can be impressed on multiple different coins, often from different countries.

I have a Disney design on copper, brass and steel coins, they're all similar; but different colour, weights etc.

Not sure I would want to see them all listed separately based on the underlying coin, as they are all the same design.

It could get messy very quickly, Disney World alone has many hundreds of designs.

Quote: "inc7007"​Another problem is you would have to catalogue designs rather than items, as the same image can be impressed on multiple different coins, often from different countries.

This, plus that pressed pennies are PMD is the reason for me to downvote this request.
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Quote: "inc7007"​I quite like pressed pennies, and have a few of them...
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​Ignoring the argument about damaged coins: -
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​Another problem is you would have to catalogue designs rather than items, as the same image can be impressed on multiple different coins, often from different countries.
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​I have a Disney design on copper, brass and steel coins, they're all similar; but different colour, weights etc.
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​Not sure I would want to see them all listed separately based on the underlying coin, as they are all the same design.
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​It could get messy very quickly, Disney World alone has many hundreds of designs.

​Yes for sure it should be base on design and not on the donor coin.
In spain there is these machines in all corners and each machines have 4 different dies.

Can I ask, how you define UNC or VG with an eloganted penny (me too have some at home...).
LP

In my opnion elongated pennies are fully part of exonumia. They differ from other tourist souvenir tokens in their method of production, but they basically serve the same purpose. And for sure we should not differentiate based on the donor coin, but only on the design or type of die.
Now that we have a proper way to catalogue them, they could be listed on Numista. Let's see how the votes evolve.

I agree with Xavier.
there is even some history to some of them. Recently saw an auction with some Elongated pennies made between 1900 and 1910 if I recall correctly.

Quote: "apuking"​there is even some history to some of them.

​Yes, some have historic significance, ones as early as 1893.

As far as I am concerned elongated coins are simply PMD. That said, many people seem to enjoy and collect them so I wouldn't vote to deny them a place where they can list and catalog them. So I vote yes.

Yes, put a elongated Cent category, I think its a good Idea. We don't have pennies here in the United States. LOL.

Quote: "Arby"​Yes, put a elongated Cent category, I think its a good Idea. We don't have pennies here in the United States. LOL.
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​Perhaps not for long my friend. It's not if, it is simply when.

Why would anybody be against it, this about having fun and trading, logging what one has. I really like the Idea of the Indian Cent ones, I think they are more unique same with the silver Quarters. I thought those came out awesome. Those would be fun to collect as well. Everyone needs to get over themselves who are against doing this. Most of the coins are considered junk coins due to their condition. Of Course its not a good idea to press rare coins. Have fun and lets put a category so we who want to continue doing this has a place to log them and trade them.

I hope this can be approved and I have already voted accordingly. I have some months ago put into the catalog an elongated 5 euro cent, but unfortunately it was not approved.

Hello.
In this case, would there be any reason not to accept enameled and gilded coins, hobo nickels?

Quote: "Cyrillius"​Hello.
​In this case, would there be any reason not to accept enameled and gilded coins, hobo nickels?

​For enameled or gilded coins they can be entered by a user comment but you can make a pole to integrate it, if you want.
Regarding hobo nickels as they are handmade an every piece is unique, I don’t see any way to create a catalog based on unique pieces.

But is this an objective reason not to include such objects in the catalog?

Or is there some reason not to include such objects in the catalog, also with a changed design?





I don’t mind elongated pennies (I don’t mind anything at all), but I’m sure we will meet with questions for similar objects.

Similar objects are probably also PMD coins with regard to being coloured:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces222232.html
LP

Quote: "Cyrillius"​But is this an objective reason not to include such objects in the catalog?
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​Or is there some reason not to include such objects in the catalog, also with a changed design?

​I am personally not against it as far as it’s in Exonumia, but it’s hard to tell when it’s made by a company that do series or by a single person that like to paint his coins.

Personally, I collect these where coins when I can, not because I destroy a "worthless" 5 cent piece I have thousands of, but to commemorate going somewhere I enjoyed.

I see them as tourist tokens. And yes, you could say they can be seen as PMD, but I think that misses the point of them.

For example, Castle Hohenzollern has three different designs of Elongated coins, but it also has a machine that just gives a "normal" token for 2 Euro.

Now, why is one a token, and the others are post mint damage? They serve the same purpose in my opinion.

(note, this might be the worst photo I've ever uploaded, but it's 23:20 over here and I can't get my lights to work, so sorry bout that)

Can we just skip this PMD, it really sounds like a PMS and add these to the Exonumia database? If I may use those famous words "resistance is futile". There will always be people against it and others for it. It goes more in the way of this first party accepting it...

Quote: "mikimaus"​Can we just skip this PMD, it really sounds like a PMS and add these to the Exonumia database? If I may use those famous words "resistance is futile". There will always be people against it and others for it. It goes more in the way of this first party accepting it...
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​At least, by the votes, we can see that the community is not as against it as it seems when we read the Forum

Quote: "swatdennis"​Personally, I collect these where coins when I can, not because I destroy a "worthless" 5 cent piece I have thousands of, but to commemorate going somewhere I enjoyed.
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​I see them as tourist tokens. And yes, you could say they can be seen as PMD, but I think that misses the point of them.
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​For example, Castle Hohenzollern has three different designs of Elongated coins, but it also has a machine that just gives a "normal" token for 2 Euro.
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​Now, why is one a token, and the others are post mint damage? They serve the same purpose in my opinion.
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​(note, this might be the worst photo I've ever uploaded, but it's 23:20 over here and I can't get my lights to work, so sorry bout that)
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​Totally with you! I make my words yours.

Ironically enough, the vote is exactly tied at 22-22 (not counting my vote) as I write this :-) I'd have expected more support...

I'm definitely voting for it though! Never quite understood why they weren't on Numista in the first place, and the separation of Exonumia removed the last good reason against them.
There are actually some designs that are struck on special blanks and not on pre-existing coins, which technically makes those types tokens and not in any way PMD.

[EDIT: slight clarification.]

24 to 22 ;-)
As said before it look like the community is not as against it as it seems reading at the forum.
The ones that just look from a PDM point of view don't collect tokens so I don't understand why they vote as this new category will be out of the coin category and therefor out of their interest.

I really see it as an added value for Numista as the collectors who collect it are drive to Colnect right now ...

And just to laught a bit, look at the vote for Postal orders and the status ...

I personally don’t collect them and probably won’t ever collect them but just because you don’t want it in your collection why keep others from enjoying it and using this great asset Numista to catalog them. It seems a bit childish and self centered for people to always downvote options to further develop the site just because they don’t plan on using the feature.

Matt

I would love to see this added to the catalogue, I know this is a very touchy subject for some collectors, but for someone who collects them, this would be a dream come true!!

Hi!

How soon can we see the result of this topic applied to Numista? I think there is a clear margin to implement this modification.

Best regards.

Quote: "guga.lamy"​​I think there is a clear margin to implement this modification.

​I wouldn't call 27 for and 23 against a clear margin.

I do not get involved in pressed elongated tourist novelty coins, exomunia, and almost all tokens. That being said, I have not read a valid reason of why these collectables should not be included on Numista for those who do collect them. I do not want to see Numista become a website for anything collectable, but I definitely see that these pressed coins are exonumia. I vote up.
Randy

I like the idea of elongated pennies, they're a little token and memory of a place you've been.
But arguing against adding them because "PMD" is silly.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces74859.html
Technically countermarked coins could be considered PMD'd.

And considering there are specific designs out there, with multiple copies of pennies with them (imagine how many people have the elongated pennies from places like Legoland or Disneyworld) I think it would make perfect sense to add them to exonumia.
I vote yes

Any update with this coming to the web?

I say yes as i have too many to keep track of.

Another yes vote for me. I see little logical reason to deny them at this stage; Exonumia already includes tourist/souvenir tokens, pressed pennies are precisely a tourist token minted on the spot with a flan donated by the customer.

Elongated SHOULD be put into the catalog. Granted, the designs can be imprinted on a variety of substrate, but the under lying "metal" is not of primary importance. The Design is the primary focus. And, they are very much a part of collecting, touristing and Design. Much in "Coin" collecting does not make a great deal of "sense". Collectors are obsessed that, on one hand, a coin or token should never be cleaned, while on the other hand, they appear to value totally uncirculated, unused and pristine coins as more "valuable" than those that have come from circulation. My contention is that an "uncirculated" coin is not "REAL" money because it has never served the purpose of its creation...namely, to be used in commerce. It is more a "work of Art" rather than a "coin". If you have enough money, one can purchase all the "Art Work" they want. The idea, inherent in coin collecting, is to acquire, from circulation, the items for a collection. That is the challenge, joy and excitement. And elongated coins (especially pennies) are very much a part of that experience. Get over your "attitudes" and get back to honest collecting. Put elongated coins in the catalog where they belong.
Thomas A. Martinet, Las Vegas, NV.

Just wanted to see if we could get this added into the catalog, since the votes are more Yes than No, and no one has responded to it since last year. Thanks!!

Quote: "Danthann"​Just wanted to see if we could get this added into the catalog, since the votes are more Yes than No, and no one has responded to it since last year. Thanks!!

Nice greetings.
I have been against in the past (due to coin destruction), the encyclopedia convinced me ( Christmas gift) by claiming that a new design and story is emerging.
( It's a kind of coin evolution- somehow humorously justified that something old will disappear and give space to the new ....)

Quotes from our latest encyclopedia:
,, abbreviated, extended-oval coin, is created by embossing a special design to create commemorative or souvenir token. Their collecting is a branch of numismatics under the designation as exonumia ,,

When we are collectors and the world recognizes it, I think there are a lot of us who would enjoy creating one crazy subsection. And that's because the section for shouted houses has a beautiful and right next to religious tokens ( almost everywhere is the principle that these two aspects of human research should be separated by at least 500m- again more humor to relieve)



Ivan

Now that there's a distinct exonumia section to the site design, it would be nice to catalog pressed penny designs here with other exonumia.

Any updates on this thread?

The question from the mods was posed "how to catalogue" them, but I think that we could put them under "Souvenir medals" --) elongated coins.

Of course, they are officially "tourist souvenirs" but I think it'd be better to put them in their own category. Maybe go ham and put them per nation and then have the place of issue as the "ruler"? To give an example, you can search (in my post from a year ago, was it?) for "Castle Hohenzollern, Baden-Württemberg" and you would see all the designs from that place. I know some cities a lot of different machines over town, sometimes from different companies even

I mean, not to be a killjoy here, but the postal order thread was 5/1 against and they got approved. There's currently a 2/1 agreement on this thread.

(Yeah, I am also posting here in order to try and get this page in the spotlight again

Hello,

Elongated coins are now accepted in the Exonumia section, with their own category: Souvenir medals > Elongated coins.

We consider them not only as post mint-damage, but as a new token made from a coin instead of a regular planchet. No other types of post-mint modifications are accepted in the Exonumia section for the moment.

Quote: "Xavier"​​We consider them not only as post mint-damage, but as a new token made from a coin instead of a regular planchet. No other types of post-mint modifications are accepted in the Exonumia section for the moment.

​Here is another token in Exonumia made from a coin:

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/exonumia125990.html
Token - San Miguel Coffee Merchant's (Counterstamped on Indian Cent)

This token is post-mint damage to the Indian Cent, but also the creation of a new token with a coin as a base. (And while with an elongated cent any planchet could in theory be used, the validity of this Coffee Merchant token probably depended on seeing it was on an Indian Cent.)

I think your sentence on the types of modifications accepted in the Exonumia section is over-broad.

I break Exonumia into two groups: Those used in commerce like the coffee merchant token and most notgeld, and those made to collect like elongated coins, some notgeld, and Lundy Puffin items. Should the statement be that post-mint modifications made for reasons unrelated to commerce aren't allowed (except elongated coins)?

Thanks for raising this case. The definition is indeed too broad. My intention was mainly about excluding coins that are plated or coloured as post-mint modifications, as we often see intended for collector market. Counterstamped or encased coins should still be accepted. We can try finding a better rule to be included in the next version of the guidelines.

Thanks!
Just had to say it.
Thanks.

Thanks for these informations, Will it be possible to add a line/tab to indicate which original coin was crushed? Indeed, some coins are crushed on the obverse AND on the reverse, it may be difficult to guess the original coin.

Merci pour ces informations,
Sera t'il possible de rajouter une ligne/onglet pour renseigner quelle pièce de monnaie d'origine a été écrasée?
En effet, certaines pièces sont écrasées à l'avers ET au revers, il pourra être difficile de deviner la pièce d'origine.

One more question. Do we really need fields like weight, diameter and thickness within this kind of Exonumia? Most roller pressing machines accept 5 EUR cents (in Europe), but you can (save a margin and ) get away with also 2 Euro cent coins. So the base coin in this situation is probably an information with somewhat low worth. Just asking...
LP

Quote: "mikimaus"​One more question. Do we really need fields like weight, diameter and thickness within this kind of Exonumia? Most roller pressing machines accept 5 EUR cents (in Europe), but you can (save a margin and ) get away with also 2 Euro cent coins. So the base coin in this situation is probably an information with somewhat low worth. Just asking...
​LP

​Low worth is significantly different from no worth. And the fields are optional. You can leave the weight off and the Numista police probably won't come to the door with a signed warrant allowing them to weigh your elongated tokens.