Help to identify German coin - 1656, Max Heinrich, 8 Heller , Cologne [solved]

Hi,

anybody able to help identify the below coin ?

silver in colour, hammered, dated 1656, but image search returns nothing. I can maybe make out DURS on one side and COLO on the other, but can’t quite make out the denomination.

Believed to be a German coin.

size approx 17-18mm

many thanks

I am wondering if the denomination could be 4 heller or 4 pfennig (Roman numerals in center?).

tdziemia

I am wondering if the denomination could be 4 heller or 4 pfennig (Roman numerals in center?).

i couldn’t seem to find that format of denomination (Roman numerals) on a coin that dates from the 1650s ….. they all seemed a bit later, which make some wonder if it’s a fake ….. 

I think the legend on the shield side is MAX HEN (ARC)H COLON, for Archbishop Maximilian Heinrich of Cologne, as on this coin:  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8000588.

Maybe there was also a 4 heller?  

tdziemia

I think the legend on the shield side is MAX HEN (ARC)H COLON, for Archbishop Maximilian Heinrich of Cologne, as on this coin:  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8000588.

 

Maybe there was also a 4 heller?  

My worry is that the dates don‘t seem to match with the text  at all ….. 

He was Archbishop of Cologne 1650-1688, so the date range is OK (if I am understanding your point).

He was strinking coins from at least 1651:  Köln, Erzbistum 8 Heller 1651 Maximilian Heinrich von Bayern 1650-1688. kl. Zainende, VF+ | MA-Shops

The KM#51 description sounds close to your coin, even if we cannot find an example of one (we know the date lists for KM are sometimes not complete):  World Coin Price Guide and Values | NGC (ngccoin.com)

I cannot explain DVRS in the legend.  We see B DVX on some of his coins (for Duke of Bavaria), and we see SRI (for Holy Roman Empire) on some others. Maybe the engraver got mixed up.

tdziemia

He was Archbishop of Cologne 1650-1688, so the date range is OK (if I am understanding your point).

 

He was strinking coins from at least 1651:  Köln, Erzbistum 8 Heller 1651 Maximilian Heinrich von Bayern 1650-1688. kl. Zainende, VF+ | MA-Shops

 

The KM#51 description sounds close to your coin, even if we cannot find an example of one (we know the date lists for KM are sometimes not complete):  World Coin Price Guide and Values | NGC (ngccoin.com)

I cannot explain DVRS in the legend.  We see B DVX on some of his coins (for Duke of Bavaria), and we see SRI (for Holy Roman Empire) on some others. Maybe the engraver got mixed up.

Thank you, that certainly seems to be a close match ….. pity more of my coin isn’t readable ….. 

Appreciate you taking time to research for me ……. Thank you

 From an earlier reply, indeed looks like MAX HEN (ARC)H COLON lettering. 

 Still looking … 

 While I was making those, already had open a link to a scan … 

https://archive-org.translate.goog/stream/appelsrepertori02appegoog/appelsrepertori02appegoog_djvu.txt?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc 

 as somewhere it was mentioned that MAX HEN lettering.  I was scrolling down it occasionally. 

At last (about ⅓ down the page) on number 834 there was this … 

 Shame the scan did not read all the letters correctly. I match some of it with yours - 

that example was for a coin dated three years earlier. So 1653 with VIII denomination. 

 I also see Dortmund mentioned, even though Cologne in lettering. 

ZacUK

 While I was making those, already had open a link to a scan … 

 

https://archive-org.translate.goog/stream/appelsrepertori02appegoog/appelsrepertori02appegoog_djvu.txt?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc 

 

 as somewhere it was mentioned that MAX HEN lettering.  I was scrolling down it occasionally. 

At last (about ⅓ down the page) on number 834 there was this … 

 

 

 

 Shame the scan did not read all the letters correctly. I match some of it with yours - 

that example was for a coin dated three years earlier. So 1653 with VIII denomination. 

 I also see Dortmund mentioned, even though Cologne in lettering. 

Many thanks….. appreciate you taking the time to research …. In your enhanced picture I can just make out a V to the left of the 2 visible II ….. so looks like it may be an 8 Heller …. Thanks again, cheers

 Thanks. Added that. Still not sure what is on the left. 

 Ah, could be missing CVSVS lettering. 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3ntSAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA3-PA181&lpg=RA3-PA181&dq=8+Heller+1656+DVRST&source=bl&ots=AGRR4QlPzP&sig=ACfU3U1qGTLZgqV9Ah6hF8dvvI3njjD47g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi1l6vq9oT7AhWTM8AKHXaVBBYQ6AF6BAgJEAM#v=onepage&q=8%20Heller%201656%20DVRST&f=false 

 from number 299 on that (German) page. 

Obverse: MAX HEN ARCH [E] COLON 

Reverse: CVSVS DVRST 1656 

 💫 

ZacUK

 Ah, could be missing CVSVS lettering. 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3ntSAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA3-PA181&lpg=RA3-PA181&dq=8+Heller+1656+DVRST&source=bl&ots=AGRR4QlPzP&sig=ACfU3U1qGTLZgqV9Ah6hF8dvvI3njjD47g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi1l6vq9oT7AhWTM8AKHXaVBBYQ6AF6BAgJEAM#v=onepage&q=8%20Heller%201656%20DVRST&f=false 

 from number 299 on that (German) page. 

 

 

Obverse: MAX HEN ARCH [E] COLON 

Reverse: CVSVS DVRST 1656 

 

 💫 

Looks good 👍 love this forensic detective work 😃 thank you