Can you identify this Meissen Groschen?

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I am trying to identify this coin, which is kind of so called Meissen Groschen. These coins following pattern of Prague groschen were issued by many German states in the 15th century. Previous owner's guess was that this groschen is from Hessen but I cannot find it. 

 

From what I have seen on their newer coins it looks like it may come from Finland.  No idea of the year.

1602 maybe.

Honza73

I am trying to identify this coin, which is kind of so called Meissen Groschen. These coins following pattern of Prague groschen were issued by many German states in the 15th century. Previous owner's guess was that this groschen is from Hessen but I cannot find it. 

 

Weight, diameter, composition?

This one seems close. N#108726

 

Here are more for you to search through until you can provide more information.

 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=etats_allemands&r=&ct=coin&im1=638be73aed056.jpg&im2=&tb=y&tc=y&tn=y&tp=y&tt=y&cat=y&ru=&ca=3&no=&v=&i=&b=&d=&u=&a=&dg=&m=&f=&t=&w=&mt=&g=&se=&c=&wi=&sw=

I agree with harryg that this is likely a groschen of the Margraviate of Meissen (less likely Hessen).  We can see enough of the legend on the lion side to match it to the typical legend:  GROSSVS MARCH MISENSIS.  I think other places would have a different legend?

 

If we have clearer photos of the cross side, we might be able to identify enough of the lettering to make a definite ID of the ruler. 

Coin's diameter is 28 mm, weight 2,2 g, composition silver but it is quite common in case of this type of coins, that the weight somewhat variates. But Hessen groschen issued by Ludwig I or Ludwig II usually have a small shield with coat of arms of Nidda county alongside of the lion. There is no shield on my coin.

Here are some a bit clearer shots of the cross side of the coin taken from different angles. 

I think I am seeing  … ⸰ S ⸰ DЄI ⸰ GRACIA …  

Not very helpful.

 

But maybe by “process of elimination” …

- Friedrich II and Friedrich III used FRID DI GRA TVRING LANDGRAV or variant 1 Groschen - Friedrich III der Strenge - Margravate of Meissen – Numista

- Balthasar used BALTHA DI GRACIA TVRING LANG  1 Fürstengroschen - Balthasar, Landgraf von Thüringen (Sangerhausen) - Margravate of Meissen – Numista

- Friedrich IV (1400-1404) used FRID DI GRA TVRING LANGRAVIS 1 Fürstengroschen - Friedrich IV der Streibare (Freiberg) - Margravate of Meissen – Numista

- Balthasar (1405-1406) used BALTH DI GRACIA TVRING LANG 1 Fürstengroschen - Balthasar (Sangerhausen) - Margravate of Meissen – Numista 

- Wilhelm with Friedrich (1412-1425)  used W F ? DЄI  GRACIA TVRING LANG (possibly the best match for the cross side), but the lion is inside a shield  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4986797 ;

 

None of these are a match for what we see on your coin, but maybe this is not the complete list of rulers/coins?  

 An earlier reply gave the agreed Obverse

GROSSVS MARCH MISENSIS 

 and another gave part of the Reverse 

NS DEI GRACIA 

 

 

 Still looking … 

Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins

I just edited my last post (I need to stop doing that 🙂).

A later type has DEI GRACIA, but reverse does not match …

 Rather than NS lettering, it looks more life FFS lettering, 

due to the fancy F letters used. Example: 

N#103893 

 Even though on that coin the lion is in a shield, not a circle. 

 

     

 Most of readable Obverse lettering [unreadable in yellow] added to second picture -  

including lower case b letter inside left of circle. 

 

GROSSVS MARCH MISNENSIS / b // FFS DEI GRACIA TVRING LANG [Reverse / Obverse] 

Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins

This? Many things match to my eye like the U and V in the circle.

 

 

N#108099

harryg

This? Many things match to my eye.

 

N#108099

 Almost, though that link has DI not DEI lettering - 

and not F F S lettering before it (cannot read what it shows on that link). 

Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins

ZacUK

harryg

This? Many things match to my eye.

 

N#108099

 Almost, though that link has DI not DEI lettering - 

and not F F S lettering before it (cannot read what it shows on that link). 

I liked the b on the lion side as well. Getting closer.

 Looks like the last coin [3158] on this page ... 

 

 

https://saurma.info/t/t512.htm 

 

Catalogue: Saurma 3158.   Sachsen-Meissen
Friedrich II, Friedrich IV und Sigismund -1436 


Denomination: Fürstengroschen (27 mm), no date
Lion , b // Floral cross in 4-lobe 
GROSSVS MARCH MISNENSIS / B 
F F S DEI GRACIA TVRING LANG 

 

 Fürstengroschen: Typical size about 26 mm 

https://saurma.info/d/d150.htm 

Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/catalogue.php?id=47 

 The F F S lettering is for the joint rulers 

Friedrich II 

Friedrich IV 

Sigismund 

 as shown earlier. 

Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins

I like it. Good work.

And, a better photo:  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3143062

…and matching the weight reasonable well.

 

Nice work!

 

Two additional comments:

1. I believe this is an uncommon type.  When I put “Groschen Friederich Sigismund” into acsearch, I find 12 examples with the lion in shield, but only 1 example with no shield (like yours)

2. The photo for this listing cited upthread is almost certainly wrong: 1 Groschen - Friedrich der Friedfertige (Freiberg) - Margravate of Meissen – Numista 

The ruler's name appears to be BALTH, not FRID, and the use of DI GRACIA seems to go with Balthasar.   

Many thanks to all of you, guys. You are doing awesome research here.

tdziemia

And, a better photo: 

 

Nice work!

 

Two additional comments:

1. I

2. The photo for this listing cited upthread is almost certainly wrong: 1 Groschen - Friedrich der Friedfertige (Freiberg) - Margravate of Meissen – Numista 

The ruler's name appears to be BALTH, not FRID, and the use of DI GRACIA seems to go with Balthasar.   

You are paying closer attention than me so perhaps make the CR?

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