Faulty Numista Swapping Mechanism

When I joined this website, I'd thought that swapping or trading coins and notes here would be foolproof and free of worry. However, this is somewhat shocking to be cognizant of the fact that it is the complete opposite. A new member has to send out their item first without any guarantee that they'll get what they're looking for; or worse, their own item back (not to mention the cost spent on courier and time wasted waiting for it). There have been a number of issues (as complained in the feedback) with members losing their items, even though it's a small percentage of the total numbers of swaps, it's still highly unfair to those who lose their goods (some of it being quite valuable), be it the postal company or a member with dubious intentions.

So, my question is, is there a sure way to exchange items without the fear of losing them? Doesn't matter if it comes at a cost; it will be, at least, reassuring and totally worth it.

Numista should have initiated a service at a fee, through which all members would send the items to a Numista's location. Upon receiving the items from both sides, they would then redirect them to the respective destinations. If one member does not send theirs, Numista would return the other member their item.

I don't know if they'd like to be bothered about it but it's not a very favourable situation for members, aspiring to make trades.

Hello! I doubt that such a service as you described (as an exchange hub) exists or will ever exist elsewhere. It will be simply too costly to do. Imagine to have to rent a facility, let's say in France, pay salaries to at least a few employees, pay taxes on profits, pay taxes on imports, pay international shipping (in addition to the shipping cost the sender of the coins pays), insurance, and I am sure other costs as well. It is hard for me to imagine the cost of such a swap. Will it be 50 USD, 80 USD, more? How many swaps per month must be made to justify such a business model? Most of the swaps done here have much less value than that. And even those few that have $300-400+ in value will be very hard to justify to do with an additional $50-80 swap fee.

Instead, hundreds (if not thousands) of people have already swapped coins around the world, and pay just the postage fee (usually a few dollars, or even less when swapped domestically). Is there a risk? Yes, but everyone here agrees to assume that risk and not to pay a hypothetical swap fee that can be 10 times more than the swap value itself.

How to decrease that risk? Swap with people with a number of good ratings, and if a person has 0 or a few ratings, ask him/her to send the coins first, to prevent yourself from being scammed. Some people swap only with the tracking number/insured. Some people swap only with the countries they believe they can trust the postal services, etc.

I hope that helped to answer some of your questions.

I would suggest that you actually try a swap or two before trying to change a system that has generally worked for thousands of members for 16 years.

rsirian1

I would suggest that you actually try a swap or two before trying to change a system that has generally worked for thousands of members for 16 years.

Says a person who has made only a handful of swaps and is now limited to swapping within his own country!!!

thegamesbond

 

 

Numista should have initiated a service at a fee, through which all members would send the items to a Numista's location. Upon receiving the items from both sides, they would then redirect them to the respective destinations. 

Kind regards.

It has already stopped working for us due to shipping costs, between North America and Europe, any additional service would only increase the already high cost of replacements.

The numismatist community is based on trust, and the system has gradually developed into its current form due to experience.

,,Confidence,, -This is what unites us, and all negative experiences create finishing touches.

Perhaps a person with a large number of exchanges and ratings from people who also have good ratings is a guarantee of honesty (there have already been many attempts to bypass or deceive the community)

The trust of a new member is probably only his decision-and assuming that an active member gets his name wrong is very unlikely( Cass Taylor -the collector is the role model of this example, and I only have good memories and I'm always sorry that the community lost such a passionate person for coins)

Even at home among neighbors, trust must be earned - it cannot be bought or inherited,, only behavior and honor is the rule,,

Ahoj   Ivan

iiruig

Hello! I doubt that such a service as you described (as an exchange hub) exists or will ever exist elsewhere. It will be simply too costly to do. Imagine to have to rent a facility, let's say in France, pay salaries to at least a few employees, pay taxes on profits, pay taxes on imports, pay international shipping (in addition to the shipping cost the sender of the coins pays), insurance, and I am sure other costs as well. It is hard for me to imagine the cost of such a swap. Will it be 50 USD, 80 USD, more? How many swaps per month must be made to justify such a business model? Most of the swaps done here have much less value than that. And even those few that have $300-400+ in value will be very hard to justify to do with an additional $50-80 swap fee.

 

Instead, hundreds (if not thousands) of people have already swapped coins around the world, and pay just the postage fee (usually a few dollars, or even less when swapped domestically). Is there a risk? Yes, but everyone here agrees to assume that risk and not to pay a hypothetical swap fee that can be 10 times more than the swap value itself.

 

How to decrease that risk? Swap with people with a number of good ratings, and if a person has 0 or a few ratings, ask him/her to send the coins first, to prevent yourself from being scammed. Some people swap only with the tracking number/insured. Some people swap only with the countries they believe they can trust the postal services, etc.

 

I hope that helped to answer some of your questions.

Actually that's where the problem is, I haven't made a swap yet so naturally I have zero stars so everyone would want me to send first. And I have seen people, with dozens of 5 stars, having feedback being accused of cheating. So I'm not really sure.

MIMAEL

thegamesbond

 

 

Numista should have initiated a service at a fee, through which all members would send the items to a Numista's location. Upon receiving the items from both sides, they would then redirect them to the respective destinations. 

Kind regards.

It has already stopped working for us due to shipping costs, between North America and Europe, any additional service would only increase the already high cost of replacements.

 

The numismatist community is based on trust, and the system has gradually developed into its current form due to experience.

,,Confidence,, -This is what unites us, and all negative experiences create finishing touches.

 

Perhaps a person with a large number of exchanges and ratings from people who also have good ratings is a guarantee of honesty (there have already been many attempts to bypass or deceive the community)

 

The trust of a new member is probably only his decision-and assuming that an active member gets his name wrong is very unlikely( Cass Taylor -the collector is the role model of this example, and I only have good memories and I'm always sorry that the community lost such a passionate person for coins)

Even at home among neighbors, trust must be earned - it cannot be bought or inherited,, only behavior and honor is the rule,,

 

Ahoj   Ivan

 

Yes, I suppose, since this is the only option we're left with; to experiment with trust.

But thank you all the same.

thegamesbond

 

Actually that's where the problem is, I haven't made a swap yet so naturally I have zero stars so everyone would want me to send first. And I have seen people, with dozens of 5 stars, having feedback being accused of cheating. So I'm not really sure.

To swap or not to swap with a person with 0 stars rating is a decision to be made by a person you initiate a swap with. Some people will ask you to send the coins first, some may not. Everyone was in your shoes at some point. 3 years ago I had 0 ratings myself. I gave it a try, and I even proposed it myself to send the coins first to build my reputation. Of course, I tried to swap with some experienced people first, not be scammed myself, and to get some guidance as well.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of another end of the swap. Will I be willing to send coins to a person with 0 ratings without any guarantee? Probably not. And these ratings serve as a guarantee to a certain degree. Will I want to damage my ratings by not sending and keeping 20 double coins that I have? Probably not.

So, my recommendation is to try to negotiate some swaps, maybe some of them can be confirmed, and send the coins first. Try not to do an expensive large swap, but rather a small one. And try to have a swap where the postage fee is not very expensive to you. Also, try to be polite in communication, as it also helps in the negotiations.

Some people have done a lot of exchanges here, some have done only a few, some never tried to exchange but use Numista as a catalog/forum. It is all up to you how you want to use it.

iiruig

thegamesbond

 

Actually that's where the problem is, I haven't made a swap yet so naturally I have zero stars so everyone would want me to send first. And I have seen people, with dozens of 5 stars, having feedback being accused of cheating. So I'm not really sure.

To swap or not to swap with a person with 0 stars rating is a decision to be made by a person you initiate a swap with. Some people will ask you to send the coins first, some may not. Everyone was in your shoes at some point. 3 years ago I had 0 ratings myself. I gave it a try, and I even proposed it myself to send the coins first to build my reputation. Of course, I tried to swap with some experienced people first, not be scammed myself, and to get some guidance as well.

 

Now, put yourself in the shoes of another end of the swap. Will I be willing to send coins to a person with 0 ratings without any guarantee? Probably not. And these ratings serve as a guarantee to a certain degree. Will I want to damage my ratings by not sending and keeping 20 double coins that I have? Probably not.

 

So, my recommendation is to try to negotiate some swaps, maybe some of them can be confirmed, and send the coins first. Try not to do an expensive large swap, but rather a small one. And try to have a swap where the postage fee is not very expensive to you. Also, try to be polite in communication, as it also helps in the negotiations.

 

Some people have done a lot of exchanges here, some have done only a few, some never tried to exchange but use Numista as a catalog/forum. It is all up to you how you want to use it.

Thank You iiruig for taking your valuable time out to extensively dispense such helpful tips. I'll follow them and hopefully it will be a beginning of a successful journey here.

You can also try to swap in person, to avoid any problems with the post.

yvon

You can also try to swap in person, to avoid any problems with the post.

But that will limit me to only those living in my city. And ironically, there's hardly any numista member from my city.

thegamesbond

yvon

You can also try to swap in person, to avoid any problems with the post.But that will limit me to only those living in my city. And ironically, there's hardly any numista member from my city.

Kind regards.

     ,, Shown applies,,

( So imagine that I am from your city)

If you are interested in exchanging coins - I offer a small exchange (approx. 5 coins - I don't want to look for more, I'm lazy, but that does not mean that I will definitely send more at my discretion, just from a different pile) shipment, which I will first send to the address you provided - so you know I trust you)

Why an offer?

You are becoming actively involved in the community-and you are looking for trust in people ( and that belongs to faith in man, and I enjoy it)

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic130242.html#p1052768

I won't advise you here, I am banned from lowering the value of coins from,, Miami USA,,-they would beat me up in the sandbox.

It's up to you, I offer "SWAP", I will send tracked mail, and if you receive it, send it to my address by regular mail via stamps (so that I do not have to pay customs upon receipt - our stupid laws last year)

At the same time, I will show you how it is packed and ensure that the coins are safe in the envelope -in the form of a sample via PM

,, So tomorrow, let's move on - unnecessary talk, let's get down to business, and we deserve trust,,

Ivan

MIMAEL

 

     ,, Shown applies,,

 

Done.

But what really surprised me was the speed and professionalism of the Pakistan Postal Service.-I did not expect it, even the records of the movement of the shipment were written on the tracking device. -- this is new information for me.

I recommend the postal services of "Pakistan",,

The shipment from the date of filing to the day of delivery was 11 days in total.

Ahoj Ivan

MIMAEL

MIMAEL

 

     ,, Shown applies,,

 

Done.

 

But what really surprised me was the speed and professionalism of the Pakistan Postal Service.-I did not expect it, even the records of the movement of the shipment were written on the tracking device. -- this is new information for me.

I recommend the postal services of "Pakistan",,

The shipment from the date of filing to the day of delivery was 11 days in total.

Ahoj Ivan

Hahaha,

That really is surprising, even more me. But it's not recommended to always bank on them LOL

MIMAEL

But what really surprised me was the speed and professionalism of the Pakistan Postal Service.-I did not expect it, even the records of the movement of the shipment were written on the tracking device. -- this is new information for me.

I recommend the postal services of “Pakistan”

 

I cannot agree more: since there is no postal service between Israel and Pakistan, I asked a seller from Pakistan to send coins I purchased on eBay to my friend in another country and everything went really smooth and fast!

thegamesbond

rsirian1

I would suggest that you actually try a swap or two before trying to change a system that has generally worked for thousands of members for 16 years.

Says a person who has made only a handful of swaps and is now limited to swapping within his own country!!!

For what it's worth, I just joined a local coin club. And I've gone to a couple of coins shows. One thing I'd like to do is see if I can get some local people on this site, listing some stuff, and then trade in person at coins clubs or coins shows. I haven't listed more expensive coins, not sure I'd want to try and trade them via snail mail.  At least not yet.

A stumbling block for me is how this site appears to be set up.  It seems to be set up to list what you've got, not what you're looking for.  I don't understand how the ‘My Wishes’ feature works.  I'm not going to list all my coins/collections.  What I've done is create two collections, one a Swap List and the other a Wish List.  But I don't see anyone else listing a separate Wish List collection.  I ‘wish’ people would do something like this.  If I see something that people have that I need, before contacting them, I'd like to know if there's something specific that they're looking for that I might have but I haven't listed.

Thegamesbond:

Are you suggesting we create a bonded escrow service where coins are sent to, and held by, a third-party then forwarded to the recipients when all coins have been received? The cost and bureaucracy involved would far exceed the value of the vast majority of swaps on this website. You're better off buying coins at a dealer.

By the way, your biggest risk in swapping coins on Numista is the unreliable postal service in your country and there's nothing we can do about that. 

I wish you great success with your collection.

Hello Thegamesbond,

Personally, when I cried on account here on this site, I already had a lot of positive feedback on another site similar to this one, but, when I started to exchange, I myself offered to send it first (to people who receive a lot of positive feedback) because these people will generate more confidence, if you had about 10/15 positive feedbacks I would trade with you without any problem, however 0 feedbacks is a warning sign, will you be reliable (I'm not saying that you are or not) Just as a collector, me for example , would not accept exchange unless you send it first.
Try to exchange with people with a lot of positive feedback, earn yours too and everything will go better for you, because we are all here to increase our collection.

I wish you the best,

Best regards,

Filipe

I would like to add that I have seen an “escrow service” work on another internet board forum for coins and precious metals.

How it worked was that there were a few “trusted intermediaries”, called middle-men, that could be used when new members had reservations. Members of the community with high feedback ratings.

The seller would ship to the middleman, upon which the middleman would verify the item, and let the buyer know it is ok to pay. Upon verification of payment, the middleman would forward the item(s) on to the buyer.

This is used rarely… there is of course the added cost of additional shipping. Middlemen usually did the service for free, but a small “tip” was appreciated. (Some middlemen have Sigma machines to verify certain gold and silver coins.) 

thegamesbond

rsirian1

I would suggest that you actually try a swap or two before trying to change a system that has generally worked for thousands of members for 16 years.

Says a person who has made only a handful of swaps and is now limited to swapping within his own country!!!

Looking at your profile, it's at least sure that you made none, so what's all this about, who cheated you?

I just had a look at your double, and there are 3 coins I need. Of course, doing a swap with you would mean, that you send first, and I only send, when I have received your coins. That's have I have made my swaps for 30 years, much before numista. And my first 10 swaps were me trusting my more experienced partners by sending my coins first. 

Of 721 swaps only 3 went bad! 

Take care and have fun swapping

I've been collecting coins now for more than 50 years and have rarely swapped any of my coins.   My first foreign coins were given to me by my Grandfather when I was a child and I can still identify some of them in my collection.  For me, the opportunity to go through my duplicates when I discover a new variation is a powerful argument against swapping.  However, I now have numerous tins, bags, draws and boxes full of coins and am under pressure to have a bit of a clear out.   The weight alone must be starting to have an impact on the structure of my house, not to mention the opportunity of using forgotten space for other less important items.

This has been a compelling thread to read.  I'm still not convinced it's for me, but it is interesting to hear other people's experiences. Maybe one day I'll take the plunge.  Good luck to all who have dared to swap for the first time.

LDC63

I've been collecting coins now for more than 50 years and have rarely swapped any of my coins.   My first foreign coins were given to me by my Grandfather when I was a child and I can still identify some of them in my collection.  For me, the opportunity to go through my duplicates when I discover a new variation is a powerful argument against swapping.  However, I now have numerous tins, bags, draws and boxes full of coins and am under pressure to have a bit of a clear out.   The weight alone must be starting to have an impact on the structure of my house, not to mention the opportunity of using forgotten space for other less important items.

 

This has been a compelling thread to read.  I'm still not convinced it's for me, but it is interesting to hear other people's experiences. Maybe one day I'll take the plunge.  Good luck to all who have dared to swap for the first time.

If you have a portion of a house occupied by the coins, you must posses one of the single largest coin collection in the world and sure with some coins lost for the rest of the world. Unless you have like 10 duplicates for each coin (just joking).

I would really be excited to see your collection but perhaps it will take you weeks to upload your entire collection.

If you have a portion of a house occupied by the coins, you must posses one of the single largest coin collection in the world and sure with some coins lost for the rest of the world. Unless you have like 10 duplicates for each coin (just joking).

I would really be excited to see your collection but perhaps it will take you weeks to upload your entire collection.

If you want to see a truly magnificent collection have a look at Ole's (Sjoelund).  I'm still uploading mine.

You are welcome to browse my swap list to start off your Numista swapping and get some feedbacks to boost your “swapping career”.

Make sure to read the profile, and always ask questions before starting, and closing, a deal, so the both of you knows the terms.

Welcome to Numista, and happy collecting! 😊