Cleaning Banknotes [solved]

Hi everyone.Could you tell me if its a good thing to clean old banknotes? My collection isn't worth a great deal. I mostly collect  for myself. But some of my notes are dirty…and i have tried washing them gently in warm water and then ironing them at a low temperature 🙂 i have had mixed results. Any opinions 🤔🤔🙂🙂🙂 Bren

What you are asking about is “restoration.”  Collectors tend to restore items that have high/great value (like a damaged Monet painting).  It is  uncommon (& fruitless) to restore something of low value (which I'm assuming your collection is since you wrote that your collection is not “worth a great deal.”)  People who care little about their collections clean all the time & share their results on social media but that doesn't validate a careless act.  Here's a link to a CCF thread on the same subject.  If you wish to restore a Five Balboa from Panama (or a Mona Lisa 2 Colones from Costa Rica) than that would be a debate for a different thread. 

If you wish to lower the value of your collection, continue to experiment.  However, it would be more prudent just to dump your collection back into circulation or try to sell them off at a flea market/coin shop since cleaning removes any collector value. (You could just dump the ones you are dissatisfied with too).  Just be aware that once you have 1 cleaned note, it casts your entire collection into doubt so expect heavy discounting from a coin dealer if you wish to sell your cleaned ones.  I know this may sound harsh but I'm just trying to deliver the “unvarnished goods” on the whole “cleaning” subject. I've seen it brought up on several forums & often the threads turn sour. 

As a kid, I pressed some of my circulated finds (40 y.o. notes) b/c I dabbled & could not afford anything above FV.  I then used them at FV at one of the first coin shows I attended in order to buy (upgrade with tougher near UNC variations).  No seller who took my pressed “doubles” offered me a premium but just grunted with exasperation as they stashed the processed bills into their cashboxes. I was open about it & they appreciated my honesty but not my notes.🥵

Always a  contentious topic.

Cleaning banknotes is not a good idea. It reduces the grade of banknotes, and their desirability to many collectors.

Some auction houses and dealers use the term ‘Pressed’ in descriptions of notes which have been cleaned or ironed or tampered with in a similar fashion.

We did a test on this back in the 1990s, washing notes [Irish One Pound notes of the 1960s, readily available from banks at face value in large quantities] in different cleaning agents at different concentrations [chemistry background here].

Several general results were evident:

1. It is not possible to remove the trace of folds and creases - these have broken and bent the fibres of the paper and are a permanent effect of circulation wear.

2. Dirt, when removed sometimes leaves worn streaks which is a worse visual effect than the dirt was.

3. Rippling occurs when the notes are dried out as the inked areas of the paper dry at different rates to non-inked areas.

4. Certain cleaning agents cannot be washed out completely and persist in the paper at very low concentrations. some of these may lead to the eventual disintegration of the paper.  Bleach is an extreme example of this, it leads to the rapid breakdown of the paper, and immediate destruction on areas of foxing.

Many collectors and dealers will not buy washed banknotes. Curiously, some grading companies will still grade notes as UNC even after they have been cleaned!

I have only one cleaned note in my own collection, a very rare Irish 10 shilling note which I have not been able to find a another example of. 

It annoys me whenever I look at , as it would be a nice VF otherwise. Its having been cleaned has reduced its commercial value by about 50%. 

Hibernia

Curiously, some grading companies will still grade notes as UNC even after they have been cleaned!

 

Question - can you tell when the note is sealed in the hard plastic sleeve?

Obviously, they do not expect you to break up the plastic sleeve and smell the note. I have a friend who once told me that you can smell the chemical they used in cleaning the note. I once bought a cheap note from a seller that they over did it that you can see the part of the paper been rubbed off. even for just few dollars, I returned the note for a refund. 

It is sad to buy one and then later found out that the note has been washed and for that reason I rarely buy old notes. If there was any old notes, usually they are not more than 10 years old. 

ahkai

 

Question - can you tell when the note is sealed in the hard plastic sleeve?

 

Yes.

Sometimes, I can spot washed notes inside a sleeve. Rippled edges are a good indicator, or washed out creases. Also, very slightly rounded corners [present on many notes that I have seen graded 64] are a good indicator. Rounded corners should be slightly worn and sometimes hold some surface discolouration. Rounded corners which are perfectly smooth and pure white are a sign of potential cleaning.

In many cases the graders mention that the note has been pressed, or had a surface erasure - they then still sometimes grade it as UNC. 
A note that has been pressed or doctored to remove an erasure cannot be UNC, imho.

I occasionally get a note which has been graded in a plastic sleeve. I cut notes for my collection out of the plastic sleeves, unless I bought the note as an investment and the grade on the sleeve is 68 or higher. Indeed, I have been advised to get loose EF-UNC banknotes graded prior to selling them at auction - that is the way things are moving.

Recently, when I cut a note out of its holder, a VF45, I got a smell of plastic which suggests that the note was in a polythene sleeve before being put in the holder and that it was not in the air long enough for the smell to dissipate. The plastic used by grading companies is inert and doesn’t appear to have a smell, so it must have been there beforehand.

You will sometimes be able to smell the chemical used to clean the note if it has not been rinsed properly. I have occasionally had to rinse a note that I bought for my collection [scarce note, you have to take them when they come up!] to get the bleach out of it. 

Thank you all very much for the information. It seems to be that clearing of any kind is not recommended. I only tried it on a couple of notes. I think it made them look a little better. But i will take your advice and not do it again. Thanks again Bren

Sometimes, I can spot washed notes inside a sleeve. Rippled edges are a good indicator, or washed out creases. Also, very slightly rounded corners [present on many notes that I have seen graded 64] are a good indicator. Rounded corners should be slightly worn and sometimes hold some surface discolouration

All very interesting & useful info. Thanks for elaborating Hibernia.  I admit I have seen some UNC 64's that appear much lighter (brighter) than they should normally & I'm sure those are “suspected cleaning” as bidding is generally much lower than it should be for that note.  Normally, I expect non “EPQ” to be pressed but I'm sure you are correct since all sorts of improper processing went down about 40 years ago.  Its only been the last 15 - 20 years that the majority of collectors started to demand unmolested “original” notes.

Thanks again Bren

Your thread brought up a lot of good info - so thanks to you too!

A note that has been pressed or doctored to remove an erasure cannot be UNC, imho.

I concur & am saddened to see all the “UNC 64's” out there. It is a shame the TPG's don't identify why the note lost the “Q” designation.  This is one of the reasons I shop mostly for EPQ & if I have a choice between PMG or BCS (Banknote Certification Services from Canada) I will always choose the strict standards of a BCS “Original” note.   Unfortunately the certifier from BCS does not grade World or I would turn to him for my world notes.  I like PCGS over Legacy too (I've seen far too many dubious notes over graded by the later certifier).

Unfortunately, when I first started buying certified notes I was a trusting (naive) individual & took the certified numbers as gospel.  But I have since become much more cautious/cynical & examine the note first before I do anything.  The old saying, “Buy the note/NOT the holder,” is a cardinal rule one must live by if you wish to get into TPG notes!  

Serial_Number_8

 

I concur & am saddened to see all the “UNC 64's” out there. 

In assigning a true UNC status to a certified note - what we used to call Strict UNC, or CU (crisp UNC) in the old days, I am tending to considering true UNC as 66 or better, with four sharp corners as a prerequisite. What do you think on this cut off at 66?

This is based on a trend I am seeing in auctions where there is a strong upward demand, expressed in prices realised, for modern Irish notes (post-1970) in grades of 66 or better.  

As an example, a £100 1973, UNC 66, sold for £2,800 in a recent noonans auction, while a £100 1975, UNC 64 only fetched £900 in the same sale. 

1973 is a scarcer note, however, in the same sale a £100, 4 April 1977. PMG holder 66 EPQ sold for £3,200. 

1977 is far more common than either 1973 or 1975. 

Conclusion, buyers are greatly favouring the 66 notes over 64 by a large price margin.

Interesting, eh…!

I am tending to considering true UNC as 66 or better, with four sharp corners as a prerequisite. What do you think on this cut off at 66?…Conclusion, buyers are greatly favouring the 66 notes over 64 by a large price margin.

I see this for PMG UNC 65 too (big discount from a 66) & I don't mind a 65 note that may be slightly off-centred. (In fact, I have quite a few 65's).  I have a few good UNC64 EPQ but I have a terrible PMG UNC63 EPQ (looks more AU55).  What I suspect is that PMG certifiers were more strict in their early days & have become more liberal in the past few years.  Many over at the PMF have expressed this opinion & we see more PMG UNC 70's then ever before.  My average grade from my BCS certified notes is probably 62 or 63. He gives these low # all the time & I would be lucky to get one BCS GEM 66 for every 30 notes I submit. So I can't get overly concerned about the numbers. Grading is subjective. I do like “original” or “EPQ” notes as they're tough for many older series. 

Interesting what you say about 65 vs 66.

At some stage, I will submit for grading a run of Irish notes I got some years ago from a block - I would expect them to all come back as 68 EPQ or 69EPQ - might even get a 70! All are sharp corners UNC. It will be a good test of PMG.

Hi Bren

I have no personal experience cleaning banknotes. But please be careful. There are banknotes in which the colors or the colors of the serial numbers are sensitive to solvents like alcohol or acetone.
I've even heard of some rare water-soluble inks.

Best regards

It's all very informative. Thank you all for the knowledge and experience. Regards Bren