Collecting communism realm of 1960s

Every collector by years faced with a fact that 1960s in some denominations in countries with the axis around the USSR are tricky. Not only the USSR itself shows it, but even its neighbor Polish People's Republic reflects the same tendency. See for example coin on an auction 

(sourse: https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/coins/poland/socialist-stars-on-eagle-1957-1985-poland-1-zloty-1968-rare-dies-i-a-low-start-no-reserve-1758921658.html)

which represents the key date of the cornerstone period of the country.
 

From one side it is well known that the coins should be added to circulation constantly and in economics it si believed that around 10% of mass of coins  should be emitted in circulation every year. Just the coins can be lost, can wear and should be substituted. 

One may believe that it should mean that every year around the same amount of coins should be minted after the initial amount during money reform. But it does not correspond the reality. As the item from the USSR shows
https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/coins/russia/uncommon-condition-ussr-ex-russia-10-kopecks-1966-rarity-low-start-no-reserve-298180062.html

in 1966 there were minted just 70000 pcs of 10 kopecks - a record in the smallest ever quantity for one year. The total mintage was revealed recently (it is a standard top secret as the result of Cold War). From the other side as we see, this amount can not cover 10% of necessary emitting per year. This brings to new vision: the coins were struck at the first years of money reform in more than necessary quantity. Some were put into circulation and the extra created the required storage for additional emitting during further years. Being this model correct, it may explain why in the USSR, Polish People's Republic, Germany, Hungarian People's Republic (see for example
https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/coins/hungary/communist-star-1970-1989-hungary-2-forints-1973-key-date-low-start-no-reserve-1726448041.html)
and others there are a lot of key dates in collections. Just there was enough in storage and the necessity of new items was small. For the communist countries plan and after that do, they do not experience deficit in coin circulation and always have healthy money turnover. This model predicts, that when time pass, the initial supply will end and necessity to struck around 10% of coin mass every year will be faced. As the result when many years pass since money reform, all years in circulation are common.

cyprusalexander

From one side it is well known that the coins should be added to circulation constantly and in economics it si believed that around 10% of mass of coins  should be emitted in circulation every year. Just the coins can be lost, can wear and should be substituted. 

I wish you a nice day and no stress.

    Don't look for any economic genius in the states of "Soviet influence", -socialist states that wanted to build a communist society in their countries.

All those who ruled and made decisions were people who got into office through party legitimacy and chatter about a better future under the leadership of the communist parties.

They were generally uneducated, a trained tailor became prime minister, ministers were made by uneducated people, the Politburo, the party organ of the Communist Party, had the main say and influence on everything.

Simple thinking also supports decision-making that turns out to be irrational.

The new currency was always printed in large quantities - large to exaggerated mintages and whenever possible in the cheapest metals such as aluminum and copper.

And in other planes it was decided not to carve anything new - everything is enough and the metal was needed elsewhere:    In those days, there was a huge demand for metal - states were building post-war infrastructure, dams, plants were being built, a huge number of housing estates - block of flats for housing.

So even the coins were minted at a so-called leapfrog - the first mintage was huge - then it decreased and there were years where only a little was minted and these are the rare years. Like here in the Czech Republic, only a few coins for vintage sets for collectors.

Don't look for genius, but primitiveness.        I grew up at that time and I can tell you what the teachers put into our heads at school -

***We, the most perfect state management of the socialist countries, are building a communist society where there will be no money at all - everything will be free in the shops - without paying - every person will go to the shop and take home what he needs from the shelf into the shopping basket - he will buy everything for free for free****,, Everyone takes only according to their needs,,

So the communist comrades made an experiment in a selected medium-sized city and nearby villages, how this communist model without payment will work and if we are ready:

Can you imagine, my colleague-friend, how it turned out?

Citizens from the early hours of the morning didn't even sleep after the start of 06:00 during the 100m hurdles style athletes took the shops by storm.

At the rack with ham and sausages fists like in the Octagon MMA fighters -they stole goods from each other's carts.

Strength and audacity - the knife and the ax were the tools needed by conscious socialist people -who thought that money was not needed.

,, Comrades communists from the Politburo called off this event after finding out that people were taking home "baby-infant food" - special dried milk "sunar" for pigs to feed in the barn for animals,, 

So much from real life - you need to experience it and live it.

In Czechoslovakia in 1953, we had a currency reform: even in the evening, the main representatives on television and radio reassured the citizens that there was no danger - that nothing was being prepared. ( And those were new coins minted in St. Petersburg, Russia - secretly and banknotes also secretly until then, the state mint and could not mint started minting new ones only after the exchange was announced (the workers would reveal it - that's why it was done secretly and we have so many variants of coins for the year 1953)

In exchange - all people were officially robbed by law.

https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Ceskoslovensk%C3%A1_m%C4%9Bnov%C3%A1_reforma_(1953)

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=579077719&rlz=1C1NHXL_csCZ927CZ927&sxsrf=AM9HkKl7zYUaeK5EKTF1teQCvMvHZNSsMg:1698999014850&q=mince+m%C4%9Bnov%C3%A1+reforma+1953&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjixoPGsKeCAxWChf0HHShUB0wQ0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=1242&bih=563&dpr=1.1

I know it's not Poland, it's not Hungary or the Soviet Union, but a small remote Czechia in the heart of Europe.

Ivan

MIMAEL

 

All those who ruled and made decisions were people who got into office through party legitimacy and chatter about a better future under the leadership of the communist parties.

They were generally uneducated, a trained tailor became prime minister, ministers were made by uneducated people, the Politburo, the party organ of the Communist Party, had the main say and influence on everything.

Simple thinking also supports decision-making that turns out to be irrational.

So different from today non-communist societies where corrupted and criminal elements get into office through party affiliation, chosen by their constituent sheeple 😂

MIMAEL

So the communist comrades made an experiment in a selected medium-sized city and nearby villages, how this communist model without payment will work and if we are ready:

 

Can you imagine, my colleague-friend, how it turned out?

Citizens from the early hours of the morning didn't even sleep after the start of 06:00 during the 100m hurdles style athletes took the shops by storm.

At the rack with ham and sausages fists like in the Octagon MMA fighters -they stole goods from each other's carts.

Strength and audacity - the knife and the ax were the tools needed by conscious socialist people -who thought that money was not needed.

 

,, Comrades communists from the Politburo called off this event after finding out that people were taking home "baby-infant food" - special dried milk "sunar" for pigs to feed in the barn for animals,, 

 

So much from real life - you need to experience it and live it.

 

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I’d like to hear more of your stories.  The whole western world seems to be moving toward socialism! The USA sure is. They can’t see that it can’t work. You can’t force charity and you can’t take care of people that don’t want to be taken care of. It just doesn’t work that way. 

redsmithstudios

MIMAEL

So the communist comrades made an experiment in a selected medium-sized city and nearby villages, how this communist model without payment will work and if we are ready:

 

Can you imagine, my colleague-friend, how it turned out?

Citizens from the early hours of the morning didn't even sleep after the start of 06:00 during the 100m hurdles style athletes took the shops by storm.

At the rack with ham and sausages fists like in the Octagon MMA fighters -they stole goods from each other's carts.

Strength and audacity - the knife and the ax were the tools needed by conscious socialist people -who thought that money was not needed.

 

,, Comrades communists from the Politburo called off this event after finding out that people were taking home "baby-infant food" - special dried milk "sunar" for pigs to feed in the barn for animals,, 

 

So much from real life - you need to experience it and live it.

 

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I’d like to hear more of your stories.  The whole western world seems to be moving toward socialism! The USA sure is. They can’t see that it can’t work. You can’t force charity and you can’t take care of people that don’t want to be taken care of. It just doesn’t work that way. 

Without getting into lengths about the differences between the US and Europe, I can only say that the US has never experienced socialism. 

The system MIMAEL describes is not socialism but communism - a sort of hardcore backwardness to real life. In most of Europe we today generally have social market economy since after the end of WWII, where Eastern Europe joined after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

It's a blend of soft core capitalism and socialism and has worked decently for most.

There are big differences in both mentality and economy between for example Northern and Southern Europe and then again Eastern Europe. The differences are not only based on ethnicities, but also very much on North being predominantly Lutheran, South being predominantly Catholic and East being predominantly Orthodox with a recent communist twist. Eastern Europe has countries that strive for a typical US enterpretation of capitalism.

You are correct, the US has never experienced socialism, however we are moving in that direction very fast. We are already a solid mix of capitalism and socialism.

 Still there is a lot to learn from stories from people who lived in different times and have seen much. That was a very interesting story you don’t find in history books. I’m sure he has more!

redsmithstudios

You are correct, the US has never experienced socialism, however we are moving in that direction very fast. We are already a solid mix of capitalism and socialism.

 Still there is a lot to learn from stories from people who lived in different times and have seen much. That was a very interesting story you don’t find in history books. I’m sure he has more!

There is certainly a lot to learn from those stories. Perhaps I have been overly exposed to lots of stories of life in the communist utopia … well, it is even a great part of the collections that I have, so I have much knowledge of how life was then. The history books on these topics have been written, but perhaps not been translated to English. Most of these books focus on the forceful annexation of countries to the communist sphere. I yet have to find a history book written from the Russian narrative without Putinism and obvious nationalism.

Eastern Europe and the USSR have always fascinated me. When I was young in the late seventies it was certainly a challenge to get coins from those countries! In the sixties it must have been even more difficult…
In 1988 I visited Bulgaria, in 1989 I went to Schwerin in the DDR, in 1990 to East Berlin, Bulgaria again and Romania to visit Bucharest, Sibiu and Timișoara. In a shopping center in Sofia I saw a few Bulgarian special issue coins in 1988, but for tourists it was nout allowed to buy them. The coin in the left picture I received from Bulgarian friends later. It was interesting to be followed by the same man while walking around in that shopping center. The Romanian 5 lei coin I received as change, someone had drilled a little hole in the middle, reminding me of the famous hole in the Romanian flag. The third image is a picture I took in Sibiu of a ‘forbidden to take pictures’ sign.

There was one logic mistake in the discussion.

To be non-competitive is not prerogative of the communist ideology. That is why it is absurd to accuse that someone from pig farm governs the country.  At least there are a lot of non-competitive leaders in history of any country, and that history is much longer than the last century, when communists came to power on the Earth.

Now it became obvious that the achievements of communist ideology is taken by progressive countries, that is why in many aspects the life there indeed looks at the first glance similar to the USSR and surrounding: education, medicine, senior age pensions, are just a few examples of such privileges. 

Though the discussion is  interesting, this site is the site about coins and collectibles, and it is worth to return to the coin topic itself. 

There was additional discussion about the first Czechoslovakia money reform in 1950s under socialist ideology. Most probably  regarding the topic, the 10, 25 hellers 1964  could be examples, which follow the proposed model for 1960s. In 1960 the country got new name as Czechoslovak Socialist Republic and issued coins with the new coat of arms and the word “Socialist”.  The 10, 25 hellers coins  in years before 1964 were struck in more than necessary for circulation quantity and as the result these two were made in small mintage and they became the key dates.  

I was told that the 5 crowns  1967 can be considered too as something special. It seems that example

https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/coins/czechoslovakia/shield-1966-1990-czechoslovakia-5-crowns-1967-low-start-no-reserve-691254709.html

shows that it is not fairly true. 

cyprusalexander

There was one logic mistake in the discussion.

To be non-competitive is not prerogative of the communist ideology. That is why it is absurd to accuse that someone from pig farm governs the country.  At least there are a lot of non-competitive leaders in history of any country, and that history is much longer than the last century, when communists came to power on the Earth.

 

Now it became obvious that the achievements of communist ideology is taken by progressive countries, that is why in many aspects the life there indeed looks at the first glance similar to the USSR and surrounding: education, medicine, senior age pensions, are just a few examples of such privileges. 

Agreed that comradery (non-competative ?) is not a feature exclusively seen with communism, but I guess the point was that comradery was required to get a much sweeter deal than others. Many of the achievements of the communist ideology (in the Soviet Union) were not in fact universal, which means on paper only for many of their citizens, unless of course they had the right membership or affiliation.

Edit: There is actually an article on the word блат on English Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blat_(favors)

Hapertas

redsmithstudios

MIMAEL

So the communist comrades made an experiment in a selected medium-sized city and nearby villages, how this communist model without payment will work and if we are ready:

 

Can you imagine, my colleague-friend, how it turned out?

Citizens from the early hours of the morning didn't even sleep after the start of 06:00 during the 100m hurdles style athletes took the shops by storm.

At the rack with ham and sausages fists like in the Octagon MMA fighters -they stole goods from each other's carts.

Strength and audacity - the knife and the ax were the tools needed by conscious socialist people -who thought that money was not needed.

 

,, Comrades communists from the Politburo called off this event after finding out that people were taking home "baby-infant food" - special dried milk "sunar" for pigs to feed in the barn for animals,, 

 

So much from real life - you need to experience it and live it.

 

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I’d like to hear more of your stories.  The whole western world seems to be moving toward socialism! The USA sure is. They can’t see that it can’t work. You can’t force charity and you can’t take care of people that don’t want to be taken care of. It just doesn’t work that way. 

Without getting into lengths about the differences between the US and Europe, I can only say that the US has never experienced socialism. 

 

The system MIMAEL describes is not socialism but communism - a sort of hardcore backwardness to real life. In most of Europe we today generally have social market economy since after the end of WWII, where Eastern Europe joined after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

It's a blend of soft core capitalism and socialism and has worked decently for most.

 

There are big differences in both mentality and economy between for example Northern and Southern Europe and then again Eastern Europe. The differences are not only based on ethnicities, but also very much on North being predominantly Lutheran, South being predominantly Catholic and East being predominantly Orthodox with a recent communist twist. Eastern Europe has countries that strive for a typical US enterpretation of capitalism.

Interesting commentary.

Yes, Americans do not really understand much about socialism or communism, even though our politicians like to use these terms in abundance.

The VA (Veterans Administration) is an example of a small portion of our economy which fits some definitions of socialist, though I would expect to get challenged on such a statement.  We still run largely on the capitalism model.  

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I’d like to hear more of your stories.  

Ahoj.

Colleagues, there was a lot of interest, so I will introduce you to our Czechoslovak socialist coins and now I will focus on their usefulness.

There are coins that are completely useless and yet there are coins without which life was not possible with Czechoslovakia for 60-70-80 years.

Here are the pennies described: https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal%C3%A9%C5%99

Absolutely useless coins: 1 penny and three penny

no one carried it in their wallets at all - shops did not demand this amount and the goods were not even listed as such on the price tags 

Example: 2.62Kčs 
or: 4,38 Kčs   so you never met this in Czechoslovakia.

Even the 5 penny was rarely required and few people carried it around-hardly at all.  Here are:

1 hal. do not underestimate the price of 480 CZK -21,09$

Even the capitalists did not want to live without it - but completely useless work:

Such an intermediate step for two years - Czecho-Slovak Federative Republic (Moravia and Silesia are forgotten again)

conclusion: coins useless unused lay in the bank

I don't remember this coin from my childhood or adolescence

conclusion: coins useless unused lay in the bank

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=579734912&rlz=1C1NHXL_csCZ927CZ927&sxsrf=AM9HkKm3FqWp7t-xmZb4kbsN8M-dgzkyXQ:1699268146617&q=p%C4%9Btihal%C3%A9%C5%99+%C4%8Ceskoslovensko&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiw7IaSm6-CAxXvgv0HHU6tA0EQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=1242&bih=563&dpr=1.1

they were sometimes in wallets, but few, and stores did not write this coin, did not require it on the price tags -nothing could be bought for it.

You wouldn't find a price tag in a grocery store 6,46Kčs ( designation of the socialist currency of the Kčs) either there was 6,10,6,20 or 6,25, 6,50

Often and daily used - always required and useful:

   do not underestimate and immediately check in your collections just find the dots next to the year -298,74$

Daily used and useful:

The capitalists continued

Special use:

There were few telephones in households in smaller towns and only a few in villages, so there were telephone booths everywhere - for calling. The price for the call was set at 25 halers - however, the machine did not exchange or accept other coins - only 25 halers. The need to carry was useful and used.

800Kč- 35,15 $ don't underestimate this species

koruna, 2 and 5 were standard paying circulating coins, and the three-crown was not used, so the Politburo of the Communists decided to withdraw it.

However, I have also experienced paper banknotes of the lowest value when I bought croissants on a change - they were used little and were eventually withdrawn from circulation:

3 kčs:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pap%C3%ADrov%C3%A1+3+koruna&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwivtYG__a6CAxXPmicCHaFBDQ4Q2-

and 5 paper crowns:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pap%C3%ADrov%C3%A1+5+koruna&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiLnerW_a6CAxUGjicCHWL9A-kQ2-

And here is the expected one.

A story with socialism at the beginning of the 80s

The first Son was tiny - the wife was on maternity leave, I was studying at a military school ( where we were taught how to defend ourselves against the capitalists who wanted to own us and wanted to attack us and rob us and destroy us with their greed)

This defense strategy of the Warsaw Pact was based on the immediate reaction of the first-line units near the borders in the direction of Karlovy Vary - Plzeň - České Budějovice -After the initial stoppage of the attack, we were to immediately switch to an overwhelming counter-offensive, after immediate mobilization (6-12 hours), shooting practice and within a few days of the start of the defense, we were to stop at the gates of Paris.

( As a young engineer—an army type who built pontoon bridges, and I was to be a bridge company commander—I had my own maps for crossing all the rivers on the way to Paris- the tables contained the width of the river-ford-streams, its slope-depth- and the possible terrain of the banks, their strength-hardness) So that I was ready to build a pontoon bridge  PMS https://acr.army.cz/technika-a-vyzbroj/ostatni/*kopie-1:-pontonova-mostova-souprava-pms-93183/

or just a car fast hydraulic and possibly tank folding bridges - but they also taught us to build classic wooden bridges on piles. In any case, I controlled and taught Russian transport-floating technology, namely PTS, GSP, https://www.pozary.cz/clanek/23760-obojzivelny-transporter-pts-10-uveze-po-vode-deset-tun-ve-vybave-nechybi-silny-navijak/  - This is the civilian version

But my entire military life, apart from the conclusion, I devoted myself to explosives - explosive traps, etc.

my company - bridging the Dije river after training within 30 minutes.  I've also been on the Danube - of course it's more complicated - but it was bridged by Makus Aurelius and it's on a coin.

On my Saturday off for military training, my wife sent me to the store to stand in the long-endless even outside in the rain-lines of people waiting for meat- it was a socialist tradition that nothing useful was available - yes, there was bread, rolls, butter, milk, but you could find beef tenderloin, pork belly in the fall and in February they didn't have pigs -none, as my father humorously said that this is a new special communist variety - the kind that behaves and has no belly at all. ( Bananas, oranges, tangerines just before Christmas and after winning the battle in the store)

So I spent wonderful Saturdays in this butcher shop and heard the state butcher cut - weigh and sell

There were no private individuals and one of the important traditions even today, in my opinion, would need to be introduced - that there was an obligation to work - anyone who did not have a job was prosecuted for ( paragraph - a pest that feeds on others)and punished by prison. The employer put the stamp "Employed" on the identity card or the student - who did not have one and was legitimized by the police, was detained and placed in custody.

This butcher in a meat shop was throwing sliced ​​meat on a scale here he was throwing meat and the hand on the scale was jumping back and forth and back and forth from 20 to 80 and back and the butcher was shouting to the whole shop 46.50,-,,Forty six fifty.

And when he saw an acquaintance or someone he had a relationship with, they went to another room or he just bent down under the counter and pulled out the already wrapped meat that he had prepared.

State security has counted his financial income many times-every time it was reported that he bought a villa or a mountain hut and above all people did not tolerate him regularly buying a new car from the "Tuzex" store https://www.google.com/search?q=Tuzex&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi-qYXtg6-CAxUgnCcCHfnkDTcQ2-

https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuzex

Bottom line:  my father explained it to me, when someone in the city or the region and beyond won the lottery - a sports ticket or a winning ticket, it spread around the neighborhood - what a lucky person he is.

Well, this butcher immediately ran after the winner even before the named person took the prize and he bought a lottery ticket and a winning voucher and paid 30 percent extra -in addition, he gave to the original owner and under the cover of darkness he became the new holder of the winning ticket.

And people said to each other, "But the butcher is lucky."

And the police were checking,, for what did you buy a new car in tuzex foreign fiat-miafiora ,,-submit to us your income as an employee of the fatty industry trade approx. CZK 1,500???

Answer: Well, Comrades from the Police, I had great recurring great luck again in the lottery - (lotto) and I won 200,000Kčs

However, turning it into vouchers for shopping at Tuzex is impossible, and that's another story.

Even in this way, you could live happily or spend the whole day in the store for 1 kg of meat for 30 crowns.

Ahoj Ivan

MIMAEL

 

There were no private individuals and one of the important traditions even today, in my opinion, would need to be introduced - that there was an obligation to work - anyone who did not have a job was prosecuted for ( paragraph - a pest that feeds on others)and punished by prison. The employer put the stamp "Employed" on the identity card or the student - who did not have one and was legitimized by the police, was detained and placed in custody.

The actual core difference between communism and capitalism.

With communism the state officially owns the market (even though systemic corruption eats away at it) and to exist you need to have an official income from “work”. As everyone is obliged to work, it is normal that workplaces are staffed with more workers than necessary to do the job, which again gives the opportunity of standing in line for deficit products during working hours.

With capitalism you need to join the market and offer something the market is willing to pay for - which for most people is their labour. Salary matching the skills are paid and all products are available in stores if you have the cash. Some people are able to save enough funds, or have inherited them, so they might not need to “work” but can invest their money and create jobs.

Hapertas

MIMAEL

 

There were no private individuals and one of the important traditions even today, in my opinion, would need to be introduced - that there was an obligation to work

The actual core difference between communism and capitalism.

 

 Salary matching the skills are paid and all products are available in stores if you have the cash. Some people are able to save enough funds, or have inherited them, so they might not need to “work” but can invest their money and create jobs.

Anyone who had the opportunity to prove that they had saved money for life was not prosecuted by law - not even women who took care of small children, students while studying, and sick and old people receiving dowry.  It was not tolerated and there was no income for the unemployed or just simple benefit recipients and prisoners were obliged to work and pay their obligations.  Today I see Sodom-Gomorrah at the tax collector - strong young people - they just don't want my opinion.

Ivan

MIMAEL

 

Anyone who had the opportunity to prove that they had saved money for life was not prosecuted by law - not even women who took care of small children, students while studying, and sick and old people receiving dowry.  It was not tolerated and there was no income for the unemployed or just simple benefit recipients and prisoners were obliged to work and pay their obligations.  Today I see Sodom-Gomorrah at the tax collector - strong young people - they just don't want my opinion.

Ivan

You do not mention whether the young people are lazy or whether there is no job available?

By “tax collector” I guess you mean the “social office” where people get their unemployment benefits?

The official unemployment rate is the Czech Republic is currently around 3.60%, which is considered low: https://tradingeconomics.com/czech-republic/unemployment-rate - compared to the Euro Area: https://tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/unemployment-rate

I guess you refer to people who have fallen out of the market, for one or the other reason?

Edit: Managed to find the Czech unemployment rate for youth: https://tradingeconomics.com/czech-republic/youth-unemployment-rate

Hapertas

 

I guess you refer to people who have fallen out of the market, for one or the other reason?

 

Have a nice day.

We have a paradox - we have more job vacancies - mainly for worker professions at belts - assembly plants - simple work than there are people reported as unemployed.

We have 300K job vacancies. 

I mean people who are used to receiving social benefits and don't want to work.

In our country, we know one ethnic group that stopped working immediately after the regime change from socialism to capitalism and has been receiving various supports at the expense of the majority of the population for 3 generations - even young strong individuals or women whose children are grown and this woman is not looking for a job.

I'll stir it up a bit - There are large groups of young men wandering around our territory from different countries where life is very hard and they want to find the promised land - I won't name the countries.

?? they don't want to stay with us and work and have a good time ???

Are we just a transit country through which they have to overcome obstacles???

It is rather natural that we all run to some country and send the money we earn there to our families???

And when we live with our family in a new country and our children grow up, will all women immediately join the labor market and create a better society??

What about national traditions - what about the readiness to defend the homeland - to lay down one's life for the defense of the state - to protect one's territorial and national traditions???

We are proud of our coins, we have a numismatic tradition and history - we know how to classify Hellenic coins, and we also have people who don't even care that their nation has nothing and not a single coin that circulates doesn't even claim that coin,. 

You know which coin it is with the piggy and the king???

If it seems harsh to you, delete it, but it's about a coin that no one claims.

Ivan

Thank you for answering my question.

Well, the bliss of post-communism. All I can say is that the migrant waves to Western countries in it's own way is a proof of the capitalist system is working and being popular with many people. Migrants go to Europe and North America because their own governments are practicing all sorts of -isms where the capitalist (and social) principles have been corrupted. The migrants could of course also go to China - where capitalist principles have been used to create the worlds second largest economy, but we do not hear much about that.

My last comment on this topic.

Hapertas

My last comment on this topic.

Yes, I agree, and most people live better and have more than under communism.

I will also leave this hot topic, it is a reasonable decision.

However, I will not forgive myself for the remark: ,, The world will be nice and wonderful when crowds of people stand at the gates to North Korea to live there,,-I made that up now.  -Thus, my faith in man will surely be fulfilled, and the world will have wonderful days and years.

Ivan

A bit strange statement appeared a few times above  about obligation to work. As it was already mentioned this has nothing to do with communism. See for example Constitution of France, the country which never considered to be under commonest ideology. But obligation to work for everybody is the proud achievement in France. 

Regarding  small denominations which are not widely seen in circulation as it was described on example of Czechoslovakia it is worth to make a remark.

During money reform it is not clear at the beginning if the small denomination will be necessary or not. That is why there are examples in some countries of issuing denomination not in use:

1/8 kopeck in Rus',

5 heller 1942 in Slovakia 

(source: https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/coins/germany/colonies/other-unclassified/rarity-slovakia-5-heller-1942-war-time-1939-1945-low-start-no-reserve-1739597992.html ),

1 and 2 liras in pre-euro Italy.

Denominations which vanished during emission due to inflation

1 cent in Canada,

1, 2 cents in Australia and New Zealand,

25 ore in Denmark,

50 ore in Sweden,

and so on.

It is a general phenomenon and it seems that it does not correlate with communist countries, that is it is independent of ideology. 

cyprusalexander

Regarding  small denominations which are not widely seen in circulation as it was described on example of Czechoslovakia it is worth to make a remark.

During money reform it is not clear at the beginning if the small denomination will be necessary or not. That is why there are examples in some countries of issuing denomination not in use:

1/8 kopeck in Rus',

5 heller 1942 in Slovakia 

 

 

(source: https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/coins/germany/colonies/other-unclassified/rarity-slovakia-5-heller-1942-war-time-1939-1945-low-start-no-reserve-1739597992.html ),

1 and 2 liras in pre-euro Italy.

 

Denominations which vanished during emission due to inflation

1 cent in Canada,

1, 2 cents in Australia and New Zealand,

25 ore in Denmark,

50 ore in Sweden,

and so on.

 

It is a general phenomenon and it seems that it does not correlate with communist countries, that is it is independent of ideology. 

 

 

 

 

 

5 Cents also disappeared from circulation here in New Zealand - withdrawn in 2006, along with the old 10, 20, & 50 Cents.

Between July & October, both old & new coins circulated together - & confused some people.

It was strange to see the small sized coins at first, considering the new type 10 Cents was the same size & colour as the old 2 Cents I remember from my younger days in the late 1980's.

Aidan.

Lovely Slovakian 5 heller coin!

All of the 1, 2 and 5 eurocent coins that are now circulating in Slovakia are an embarrassing geographic disaster. Denmark, Norway and Sweden have merged, it looks like Portugal has been swallowed by the Atlantic Ocean while the Canary Islands have been swallowed by Africa, the 350 km. distance between Bilbao and Barcelona is larger than the 800 km. distance between Amsterdam and Vienna, Italy looks like the leg of a fat football player about to kick a ball, with Austria, Croatia and Slovenia functioning as his/her behind, Greece has been reduced to a triangle… And sadly this disaster has been kept going for over 20 years now… (this is a 2022 coin, looking like a cheap token due to the lines between the stars not being properly spaced) Luckily for Slovakia it is not part of the E.U. on this map.

I keep my euro coins seperate from the rest of my collection. They should be banned to Exonumia. 😉

cyprusalexander

 

 

 

 

 

War coins of the Slovak State -they are certainly a special and short-term matter - a decision immediately after the breakup of Czechoslovakia -induced by war madness -We also have to deal with the reality of sudden massive inflation and all the circumstances.

Here on one of our sales websites, an advertisement for the sale of the entire "Slovak War Mint" appeared.

That's why I'm putting it here because, in my opinion, this is a very good investment-numismatic collection-however, she is not at all attractive and sought-after - a fat man from China is better, he is more handsome and above all, everyone here has it guaranteed to be genuine among the 1 yuan "fat man dollar" coins; with Kang Su.

Here is a sample from the seller:   there is also a 5 penny

I think the price of war coins is interesting 8,500 Kč which is according to the course 367,47$

https://www.sbazar.cz/lovec.stan/detail/199511068-prodam-stare-mince-valecneho-slovenska

Conclusion: War coins are indeed always a very specific matter.

Ivan

Regarding the map on the Rev. of red eurocents. It is a standard task in mathematics to make a map of a sphere. This task was solved. The result is that there is no map without distortions.  That is why it is not only necessary, but oppositely, it is a must that the scale on map does not correspond the sphere. Some details to chosen scale are so small, that it is not possible to make them either visible or correctly being presented. Human eye can distinguish at regular distance features of size 0.1 mm.  The size of a coin is just 15-25 mm. It brings to necessity to be accurate, but not in too tiny details. That is the reason for example why the USSR coat of arms does not show legends on orbits of a ribbon on coins, though on banknotes it has.

source: https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/coins/russia/rarity-in-gem-lustre-condition-ussr-ex-russia-20-kopecks-1965-bu-low-start-no-reserve-303540655.html

source: https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/banknotes/russia/lenin-1870-1924-ussr-ex-russia-25-roubles-1961-crisp-low-start-no-reserve-1453708385.html

Interesting conversation. Seems the goal of communism was to keep everyone stupid and compliant, yet with enough food in their bellies, a roof over their heads and free literacy and medical care. In the 1950s, this was quite good for people from that part of tghe world used to serfdom and then some bad living under made up monarchies  (Yugoslavia, Albania) and Fascist regimes (Slovakia, Croatia, Hungary and Romania). However all of this was low quality and countries like Czechoslovakia it went down as they had some real democracy under Mazryk in the 20s/30s and the relatively cosmopolitan Austro Hungarian influence before that.

The coins were cheap - I agree, but many non communist countries also slipped away from silver towards muck metal like New Zealand and Britain.

Communisam was a flawed theory that would only work with the perfect population (Intelligent and resourceful, but not cunning) and benevolent leadership. However all of the countries that tried it had paranoid and crazed leadership that used fear and violence to ram their regimes through. Also most of population were either peasants unready for modern society, rich merchants who would not put up with forced egalitarianism - which was always to a bare working class level of survival. And of course the intelligentsia who could see through the lies. Regimes varied from psychopathic (Pol Pot, Kim dyansty, Stalin) down to still controlling but less harsh and nearly livable (Czech, Hungary, Cuba, Vietnam) but it was still communism and it still used fear as a control mechanism. People were made literate - yes, but only enough to digest the propaganda, not question it. They got medical care - yes but basic and I doubt the technology was good like treadle drills and 1800s hospitals with people in dirty gowns as hygiene was not a high priority in communism. Food yes - but farmers gave it all to the state and often best food went to leaders and corrupt individuals, common people got low quality scarg meat, cheap fillers like rice etc and often stale/rotten food. Vibrant black markets existed.

Pay was also bad, yes a kg of meat might cost 30 Kcs or whatever, but you got paid like 500 a month. Also the currencies seldom converted to western money. West Germany lost a lot of money when they accepted East German marks at parity for a few months, their real value was 3 pfennigs per ostmark.

I think stamps were interesting, most communist nations issued mountains of cheap thematic stamps between 1948 and 1989 and most of it was sold CTO (Postmarked with full gum) to kiddies in the west and was basically wallpaper stamps with no value. Communist regimes made money by selling bulk packages of these stamps to the west for western hard currency that would prop up their “rubleniks”. Also some countries deliberately held back 1 or more values in each thematic set, so a market would develop for it and that stamp may be worth say $10 instead of 10 cents like the rest (East Germany was the most notorious). Stamp collecting was encouraged in these countries, but only with stamps of other commie countries and themes were always propaganda, nationalism and themes like animals, flowers, art, paintings etc and of course ubiquitous Olympic Games and sports issues.

Most notorious issuers were Hungary, Romania, USSR, Bulgaria, Vietnam, Laos etc and none of these stamps except a few errors are worth anything today. However some are beautiful like those of Czechoslovakia done by Czesislaw Slania, who later designed stamps in the West, mostly Denmark and Sweden.

cyprusalexander

Regarding the map on the Rev. of red eurocents. It is a standard task in mathematics to make a map of a sphere. This task was solved. The result is that there is no map without distortions.  That is why it is not only necessary, but oppositely, it is a must that the scale on map does not correspond the sphere. Some details to chosen scale are so small, that it is not possible to make them either visible or correctly being presented. Human eye can distinguish at regular distance features of size 0.1 mm.  The size of a coin is just 15-25 mm. It brings to necessity to be accurate, but not in too tiny details. That is the reason for example why the USSR coat of arms does not show legends on orbits of a ribbon on coins, though on banknotes it has.

The theory that you put out there may seem correct at a first glance, yet the design on that 20 kopeek Soviet coin clearly shows that the designer had studied the map of the world properly, without the aid of a computer even he made a really good looking map. Coin designs are made on a far larger scale than the final result, there is no excuse for this lousy map on the euro coins. A bow to the designer of these Soviet coins, well done!!!

Nowadays it is very simple to use an accurate map of what the globe looks like from a distance, when these euro coins were designed that would have taken a bit more effort, but the drawing on the euro coins simply looks horrible compared to what the globe actually looks like.

An interactive view on the globe: https://www.echalk.co.uk/Science/physics/solarSystem/InteractiveEarth/interactiveEarth.html

Moneytane

Stamp collecting was encouraged in these countries, but only with stamps of other commie countries and themes were always propaganda, nationalism and themes like animals, flowers, art, paintings etc and of course ubiquitous Olympic Games and sports issues.

Yes, stamp collecting was encouraged, but mostly thematical collections. Communism was never about nationalism (or fascism/nazism as per the official vocabulary), the “nation” was internationale, hence collecting previous national states in the Soviet Union was officially nonexistent (even though hidden away in privacy).

Otherwise very good description you've made there.

Moneytane

 They got medical care - yes but basic and I doubt the technology was good like treadle drills and 1800s hospitals with people in dirty gowns as hygiene was not a high priority in communism. Food yes - but farmers gave it all to the state and often best food went to leaders and corrupt individuals, common people got low quality scarg meat, cheap fillers like rice etc and often stale/rotten food. Vibrant black markets existed.

 

Greetings to a beautiful island.

You are partially wrong - it is not possible to connect everything to each state, even the individual communist states were very different.

An example is this statement of yours. 

Believe us, you will never find better health care in the past or now than in the Czechia. If during WW2 or communism, then even now most capitalist countries do not have a better and better health care system.

we are 23rd in efficiency -of all countries evaluated. In the 18-19th century or the first half of the 20th century, few states could compare with the Czechia.

The words about hygiene sent me completely off the couch.

Believe me, the hygiene in our hospitals was at such a level 100 years ago that it cannot be compared or compared, and even under the communists it had no effect on the medical staff and cleaners.

Example:

We had a television series filmed here at the end of the seventies, set in a hospital in a remote small town. It was a telenovela that had a television rush and many countries wanted to air it.

However, when the Soviet Union bought the film and showed it on Soviet TV, a huge wave of questions arose, how come they have such a high-quality system and we don't.   The film was immediately taken off the air and banned.

If you are interested, just look at the 70 years of the 20th century - communism in Czechia.

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=581147272&rlz=1C1NHXL_csCZ927CZ927&sxsrf=AM9HkKmntWqVZ8uVegEhzxJWk9E3P7dixQ:1699607321185&q=Uk%C3%A1zky+z+filmu+nemocnice+na+kraji+m%C4%9Bsta&tbm=isch&source=univ&fir=gNtbYH-QCBGtOM%252Cueg-b6LdanhOIM%252C_%253BDS8DWjWsN-

https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemocnice_na_kraji_m%C4%9Bsta

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBCCA6242B6477116

Just for illustration from 1925 - one of the most modern hospitals in Europe - the most equipped and also the whole system cannot be compared at all in most countries of the world( I just laid there and went to the Proton Center for radiation - it's a private clinic that's on campus-Nurses and doctors from Great Britain were there to learn during my treatment - even GB did not have this technology until 5 years ago.)

https://www.ptc.cz/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAxreqBhAxEiwAfGfndFhOnrNIMvlcgN1uFBtOahX90GCDyrHnKUQBl6-GBocPtCFCfT80sRoCaZ8QAvD_BwE

So please compare how it looked in New Zealand and in Czechia the past:

https://bulovka.cz/kliniky-a-oddeleni/klinika-pneumologie/historie-oddeleni-pneumologie

https://www.facebook.com/mcpraha8/posts/1907104862797339/?locale=cs_CZ

https://www.novinky.cz/clanek/ekonomika-nejefektivnejsi-zdravotnictvi-maji-v-hongkongu-a-singapuru-cesko-si-polepsilo-40010100

Even now, we are ahead of Germany and many other countries in terms of efficiency.

So you really can't compare Czechoslovakia and Cuba, let alone talk about hygiene, it's a completely - completely different level.

Ivan

I did mention Czechia was the exception to the rule. My hygiene remarks referred to places like Soviet Russia and Central Asian stans in which photos came of people in dirty shirts next to overgrown cities with Stalinist style apartment blocks crumbling and people with clearly dirty clothes and rotten and falling out teeth.

Okay the 70s and 80s may have got better, but the 40s to 60s were dirty decades. Many soviet apartments even in Leningrad had one bathroom per floor and squat toilets into the 90s. Also your country is full of very dirty gypsies. I have some 1990s National Geographic articles showing gypsies in ripped and dirty clothes with snot on their faces holding grubby jars of dogfat. Also in the scenes of these photos were hulked out Ladas and junked old washing machines, fridges etc and toothless adults with black gums drinking some liquor out of dirty glasses.

Even now all the Ukraine scenes show those grubby 1960s to 1980s Staliniskaya Soviet apartment blocks. 30 years since communism and they are still living in them. Even half of the cars were still smoked out Ladas and bubble shaped 50s things.

I consider Cze/Slov (14 letter country name that takes too long to type), East Germany and even Poland as the more mild and richer countries. 

I was also not insulting Czech republic as I know how nice it is and how had you guys not been affected by WW2 and then Communists, you would be richer than Sweden now!  If anything I feel sorry for all of Eastern Europe for having to suffer evil empires, then fascists and them communism and the fact most of these countries are thriving now under democracy is great.

Of all of them, its clearly you Czechs, The Slovaks, 3 Baltics, Slovenia and Croatia that are all doing really well and Poland and Hungary not far behind, even if Hungary has a f@#kwit for a leader. I mean the outflow of poles to the UK has stopped and many are going back to Poland as its a half decent place.

Also I am obsessed with history of hygiene and even most western countries, many people had bad hygiene until well in the late 20th century. Here in New Zealand most people did not shower daily until the 1970s and 1980s. I went to primary school in the 80s witgh kids who bathed once a week and wore the same clothes every day. Britain was notorious for bad teeth until the 90s. There was jokes about hiding money under the soap in a Briton's or Frenchman's house in the 80s. Only the USA was really superclean in the 1930s owards Of course most upper class and refined people became hygenic in the mid 1800s  but most working class, really it was the 50s onwards. Even today many poor and peasant Chinese are still dirty Peasants wear the same smocks until they fall off.

Eastern Europe had a lot of Jews in the 1800s - 1930s period and many ran the hospitals etc, as Jewish rules expected cleanliness and many of the cleanest and most intelligent people in 1900 - 1939 Europe were Jews. The reason not many Jews died in the Black death was because they bathed at least every week before shabbat and often more frequently. Until the renaissance, medieval Europeans outside Spain and Portugal believed bathing put you in league with the devil (Good old Christianity strikes again). Same with Islam - Black death failed as wudu in the Islamic pillars of faith was cleanliness. Full bathing every day but at least washing hands and feet before praying at mosque. When Richard the Lionheart was captured by Saladin he was shown how to have a bath! as Saladin was shocked these European Christians did not bathe at all!

Moneytane

 Also your country is full of very dirty gypsies. I have some 1990s National Geographic articles showing gypsies in ripped and dirty clothes with snot on their faces holding grubby jars of dogfat. 

Yes, by several generations of living with this maladaptive population whose hygienic habits and life is far, far worse than legendary ,, Bushman Xi,,

from the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy" So Xi really had better hygiene and housing.

And this is also the key to understanding the whole issue of immigration in our countries. For most of our people (we were not colonialists - our monarchy had no colonies) and a long-term negative experience with this ethnic group from a different skin color-smell and behavior. 

Also, look at the garbage around the tents in refugee camps in Greece, Italy or on the Belarusian border from Poland, what these migrants are capable of leaving behind on the ground. I was deployed in the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina - so I know this virgin nature, and migrants from Asia are now camping there in the forests and the waste is outrageous and they have assigned bags.

That's why people here are not able to distinguish who is who (we like people all without distinction, we are hospitable and helpful)

But how someone is a different type immediately evokes this experience in our people, and therefore just to understand why we experience and condemn it more in Central Europe. A group of cheerful performers wandered over to us early in the morning from the folklore festival and fear broke out among the ignorant locals and the police arrested this performer - they were also in the dark as to who was who.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idMk9Xl10oU  -20 kilometers from my house

https://www.facebook.com/festivalstraznice/?locale=cs_CZ

https://www.kudyznudy.cz/akce/67-rocnik-mezinarodniho-folklorniho-festivalu-str

Ahoj Ivan

Somehow this discussion stayed up even with so many politics in here.

I think that we should keep it civil, whatever are our opinions on communism etc…

Jarcek

Somehow this discussion stayed up even with so many politics in here.

 

Yes, but the discussion helps us to better understand coins-numismatics due to different cultures and countries due to experiences from different ideologies and state institutions.

Then we understand these coins better:

gold and also in silver

A couple from the cult of personality:

  gold from the Czech Mint-now the coinage and politics are better understood by the collector. 

We know what a cult of personality is and when someone wakes up in it?

Ivan

True, politics helps to understand these things.

The discussion is getting an interesting turn, refering to better understand coin issues.

In 1989 I visited Romania and received this 1989 coin as change, in that year people were demonstrating with Romanian flags with a hole in the middle. As someone had drilled a partial hole in the middle, I wondered wether this was done just for fun, wether it had some practical application or wether it an act of resistance refering to the hole in the flag.

What do you think is most likely the case?

A demonstration I accidentally witnessed in Timișoara while being guided around in the city center by someone who was scared when I attempted to take a picture and requested me to do this in a way not attracting attention (this is an image with a few edges cut off):

The image above of red eurocents is from the late dies, for at the beginning the outlining was different as well as the shape of many details. See for example 

Source: https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/coins-euro/malta/from-bu-mint-set-2008-2023-malta-5-euro-cents-2011-uncommon-low-start-no-reserve-1882879911.html

It is especially visible in solution for Scandinavia, as well as Greece and Italy looks less realistic. The sculpturer indeed makes big model. During the process of minting the tiny details may vanish easily, that is the reason to think about them in advance.

Regarding the small pit at the Romanian coin, it is result of circulation and anything may be a reason. Here is the beginning of possible list, as result of imagination:

- an intentional spoilage with a rod and a hammer;

- a usage for non-circulation purpose: I was told by geologists and astronomers, that they put a coin under a leg of a theodolite to make the tool stay horizontally.  After many months under sharp leg the coin has similar pit;

- when Ceausescu made the country free from foreign borrow someone decided to celebrate it as additional shine of the Sun;

-  add any by yourself.

cyprusalexander

 

- when Ceausescu made the country free from ……..

Have a nice Sunday colleagues and enjoy your Sunday lunch.

    Dear colleague, thanks for the guidance on the coins of Romania.

In my opinion, there is no greater propagandist in coin design among the communist states than Romania. The propaganda of communism is exemplary on these coins -who else is an example than a tractor plowing a field or a blacksmith in a factory?

    a treasure trove of propaganda

Yes, many of you will object and protest that only Czechoslovakians are the best - they proved it on paper - the banknotes that all people use the most on a daily basis-  There, propaganda to tie everything together :

there in the distance a factory is spewing poison oxides into the air - tons of acrid smoke into the air and on the right is a man casting iron from blast furnaces where iron is melted to make tank-and mortar guns

and by his side stands a brave agricultural woman who cuts grain with her bare hands and holds ears of wheat from which bread ( poisonous dust from those chimneys falls on the wheat-crops) is made for the soldiers- Dear collectors, this is propaganda on banknotes.

This is the idea of ​​building that perfect society - but the dreams collided with the bare reality -that behind everything is man - and that is an imperfect creature. Give an example of propaganda on coins?

Ahoj Ivan

Unfortunately propaganda has nothing to do with communism obviously. The Ancient Romans discovered and started to use coins for propaganda and till now the main message of any coin in the world is propaganda. That is why propaganda is just means. The famous scientist from Russian Empire Maria Skladowskaya died of disease coursed by radioactivity, that very one, she became twice Nobel prize member, not many people from the territory of Russian Empire were honored by the prize even once.  It means, that the proud of  achievement, which later was discovered as wrongly treated and thus dangerous can not be humiliated from the point of view of future knowledge. 

cyprusalexander

 

Source: https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/coins-euro/malta/from-bu-mint-set-2008-2023-malta-5-euro-cents-2011-uncommon-low-start-no-reserve-1882879911.html

It is correct that maps have changed for some euro coins, but that happened in 2007/2008, where Slovenia is the only country with 2007 coins with the new maps on the 10 cent to 2 euro coins. The map design on the little 1, 2 and 5 ones never changed though.

On the first map if Europe on the 10, 20 and 50 cents coins Denmark is situated North/North West of the Netherlands, which is pretty rediculous. These maps had to be changed when Slovenia became part of the Euro zone. As Sweden, Denmark and the U.K. already were on the map, the new map should have been on the coins already in 2004 when Slovenia entered the E.U., but that is small talk.

I assume you're a coin seller, as this is the 3rd reference to the same coin shop on Cyprus in this discussion. Malta only became part of the Euro zone in 2008, so choosing to show a coin from Malta is a bit weird here. But I'll take it as an opportunity to start about God, as Maltese is the only language from a Christian nation in which the word fot God is Allah.

Mimail started about propaganda on coins, the USSR and the USA are the true masters at that, by using symbols. The symbol of communism was shown already above. The USA has the ‘liberty’ and ‘in God we trust’ propaganda giving people the illusion they live in a free democracy, but the pyramid on the US dollar note makes it clear it is the freemasons that run the country.
https://www.history.com/news/freemason-symbols-hidden
 

cyprusalexander

 

Regarding the small pit at the Romanian coin, it is result of circulation and anything may be a reason. Here is the beginning of possible list, as result of imagination:

- an intentional spoilage with a rod and a hammer;

- a usage for non-circulation purpose: I was told by geologists and astronomers, that they put a coin under a leg of a theodolite to make the tool stay horizontally.  After many months under sharp leg the coin has similar pit;

- when Ceausescu made the country free from foreign borrow someone decided to celebrate it as additional shine of the Sun;

-  add any by yourself.

-It appears as good as impossible to me to create such a pit with a rod and a hammer in an aluminium coin.

-The second option sounds partly plausible, though it would not be the theodolite standing on the coin for a long time that would create such a pit, that part sounds impossible to me, however drilling a pit on purpuse for giving a pointy leg of a theodolite a grip makes total sense when you use it indoors, using coins with little pits to protect a nice wooden floor.

-The additional Sun sounds extremely unlikely, I doubt it someone who appreciated the acts of Ceaușescu would even think of damaging such a coin on purpose. Time will tell wether the following is reality or just a theory: The world elite, that sort of owns and rules most of the world through national debts, consists mostly of banking families who would be very upset with Romania becoming debt free. Ceaușescu had to die, to make it clear to other leaders of countries not to get their country out of debt. Romania is back on the debt list. Kadhafi also had to die, to make it clear to other leaders they need to keep dealing with the U.S. petrodollar. Related is the very interesting Seymour Hersch article 'How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline'. Russia and China are getting very close to paying off all their debt and more and more ignoring the petrodollar as well, which would lead to a very intesting new global balance as well as WWIII. It would be very nice for eventually all of this just to be theories truly proven wrong. Image: a Ukrainian propaganda coin. N#134223

E. Timmermans

 

 

 people the illusion they live in a free democracy, but the pyramid on the US dollar note makes it clear it is the freemasons that run the country.
 

Well colleague, you're really ahead, I just don't know which direction you want to go -So compare the head of state and parliament just these .two idiots who suffered the families of many people and these people dealt with their end according to tradition.    Ceaușescu and Kadhafi -they were criminals committing crimes against their own nation and specific people.

And you drag loans and the petrodollar into it?? This is too much for me and I will try very hard - to really understand it, and the NS I and II gas pipelines, right from the start, I credited  of the state through which the old gas pipeline leads to UE, because there you can collect fees and also steal this gas, and the investigators confirmed my version - it's a sad finding.

Please do not continue with conspiracy theories and current propaganda-you give admins a quick option to rate it as strongly inappropriate.

I laughed, how can you give that African....something I don't even want to call genius and abilities - what both dictators understood was oppression - control and spreading fear - they themselves shit in golden toilets.

Conclusion: if the prime minister-president-sultan-king has a golden toilet in his bathroom and the people of his country are starving, I would look for the beginning here and the end here.

It's enough for me to see the dictator on TV riding a horse in the mountains in the winter and they even have a nice horse on a coin.

There are those who ride bears and pull out old amphorae from the lake, but do not put it on coins and ride half-naked on horseback across the endless plains - this is on TV and not to be confused with loans.

Ivan

That fact that some changes are not in someone's attention does not mean, that the changes did not happen. See for example the north of Greece on Cyprus 50 eurocents 2008 and right the next year 2009 or any year larter. Yes, one will see, that there is “three fingers” peninsular with Thessaloniki  on 2008 and they washed out completely on 2009 and later.

source: https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/coins-banknotes/coins-euro/cyprus/greece-2008-2022-cyprus-50-cents-2013-unc-mint-luster-uncommon-low-start-no-reserve-1770597196.html .

What makes it interesting, the change happened on the same mint in Vantaa, just the next year. 

The standard catalog of of varieties of euro coins does not mention this change, for till now no mule was found. But it does not mean, that the style did not change. If we take just coinage for Cyprus, it experienced at least 3 changes of style of red eurocents  the first switch was described above, and the second was the most noticeable, as the result it is published at http://eucoins.byethost9.com/intro.html .

Mimael - we know you love your country and by the standards of communism and post communism - its done incredibly well! So well I may even visit it one day. The architectural glories of Prague, the historic spas of Karlovy Vary and the wonderful Pilsener lager.

But many other post communist societies have not done so well - look at Romania - poor and corrupt, Bulgaria - poor and full of right wing nationalists. Ukraine - wracked by an unjust war, Russia a complete basket case controlled by a barmy neo communistic dictator, Belarus also still basically communist under Lukashenka or whatever his name is. Moldova - poorest country in Europe, people in Angola and Zambia earn more than the average Moldavian who still lives in an 1800s clay cottage, wears cheap kerchiefs and gets around in wooden sided carts with 1950s bald tyres off a 1962 Moskovich imp! All the stans look rich, but have crazed for life dictators who are building bling bling capitals like Astana, Ashgabat and Khazan Island in Baku, but most people are scared, living in yurts and bath once a month and only oil keeps them rich. The mountian stans are poor and still living in some neo Stalinist time warp.

This destructive and socially degenic system retarded economic growth and polticial developments by at least 100 years. Communism was designed to keep people poor, stupid and scared. The reason Czechia/Baltics/Polska/Slovenia/akia etc emerged relatively unscathed was their intelligence, urbanity and proximity to western and northern europe and resilience, however the more agricultural and feudal based countries of the Balkans and Slavic heartlands along with the stans - fared less well and thus will be stuck with for life dictators, kleptomaniacs and corruption for generations longer.

Please stop defending communism - it was a stupid and violent system that just ruined countries and people and was easily the most sinister and daft form of government ever invented besides fascism.

Some coins to keep the mods happy - 10 Forint from Hungary showing happy peasant (Propaganda from Karaganda)

10 Pfennig from east Germany, virtually all of their circulation coins were aluminium except brass 20Pf and 5 Marks. The designs barely changed from like 1948 through to 1989. Fashion and quality were seen as evil bourgeois capitalism to the commie.

Another aluminium communist coin from Poland. There are no communist stars on this one.

Moneytane

…

Please stop defending communism - it was a stupid and violent system that just ruined countries and people and was easily the most sinister and daft form of government ever invented besides fascism.

…

In everything he said so far, he does not defend communism, he even shows with humor the absurdities of this ideology in the example of free food "according to each person's needs"...
These people suffered from this ideology which no longer attracts anyone, but we cannot throw all aspects at the same time in the trash: mutual aid in a community, certainly obliged by the harsh living conditions, was undeniably more developed than in the Western world.
And during a visit to Albania, I was captivated by the dynamism of the population emerging from one of the most dictatorial regimes on the planet. Certainly there is the mafia which concreted the coast and undoubtedly still prohibited plantations which supply the Italian market but apart from that there is an energy everywhere increased tenfold by the bitter memories of the dark years.

Moneytane

Mimael -

 

Nothing, all the most beautiful things in life, especially health and happiness.

it seems that there is a misunderstanding in the communist stars on the Polish coins.

For example the coin

Source: https://t.me/s/enjoyyourcollection?q=Lot+4854

shows clearly 5-rays stars on the wings of the bird as well as the Rev. is an ode to communist labor.
At the same time the capitalistic world

 Source: https://t.me/s/enjoyyourcollection?q=Lot+4936

does not have them though the bird bears a crown(!), which is a bit too much - due to Lenin's liberation it did  get rid of any monarchy.

In general it looks misunderstanding to consider communism as something which needs defense. Communist Cuba for example became the first in the Hispanic world which conquered space. Even United Nations shows much more respect to peoples and their lifestyle.

If you want to become a celebrity, go to Poland and shout at any public place that Lenin liberated them.

Your misunderstanding will get corrected quickly and thoroughly.

While not exactly communist, Yugoslavia was the example of how good the socialist theory was. I spent first half of my life there so I should know something. 

Workers got free apartments from the state (owned enterprises) 

Everyone was entitled to free education, all the way (less books) 

Health insurance, including dentists, was virtually free. 

Every family got at least two weeks a year free in some seaside/mountain resort. 

Etc, etc… 

Then of course came greedy ones that muddied the whole idea(l). 

Now I am in a capitalist haven, paying for everything but for the air I breathe, which will probably change as well 🤣

@ Dejan, thank you for bringing forward the example of Yugoslavia! As far as I know, Tito was genuinely loved by the majority of the people, for one part for keeping the nation together. A famous quote from Tito: I am the leader of one country which has two alphabets, three languages, four religions, five nationalities, six republics, surrounded by seven neighbours, a country in which live eight ethnic minorities. In 2019 I visited Sarajevo and surrounding nature, among which one of the impressive Zavidovici spherical rocks, Montenegro with the amazing R18 road passing through the Gornje Lipovo mountains, as well as the very beautiful Plitvice lakes in Croatia. At other trips I found Beograd and Skopje to be very interesting cities, in Slovenia I love the lake of Bled.

When I see people bashing on communism or on any other system, then I experience that as too easy to judge a system one has never lived in to be evil. A Russian friend of mine told me she had a happy childhood living in the Soviet Union. I find her a very genuine person, so apperently it was possible to live in the USSR and be happy. One thing I love about communism is the very different style of art it brought to this world, regardless of ones taste, with this 1 ruble coin being a perfect example. I really enjoyed the Moscow subway as well with all its art, Saint Petersburg is stunning.
 

When you look at communes in Israel during the sixties and seventies, then it appears most of the people there were trying to live a rather Communist lifestyle, it seems the majority of the people there were quite happy. I still found a community spirit when I visited Israel in 2001, which in a way is still present on this 2011 coin as well.

In India, Kerala has had a Communist Government for many years. It is one of the richest parts of India, when I was there my impression was that most people there were quite happy. The 1 rupee coin celebretes the great I.C.D.S program, which aims to aid poor families with child education.
 

The point I would like to make is that generally it is not the ideology that is good or evil, it is the way it is implemented in practice. The first time I went to the United States, I met a lot of people from many different states. My impression was that most people were helpful, hospitable and quite happy. That was a time when capitalism worked really well for most of the people there. There has been a major change though. The last time I went there, in 2018, I noticed a lot of people in big cities like New York, Saint Louis and San Fransisco were living in poverty. Much more so than in the eighties. Nowadays, it has become ‘normal’ for the average low to middle educated worker with kids to need to work 2 or 3 jobs in order just to survive with the famlily. Corona made things even worse, now there are many people who lost their jobs, who live in a car or in a tent now. Capitalism has become slavery for a big percentage of the people there. The arch on the Missouri coin is a great symbol of entering a land to live in freedom, however the use of a lower case u sized as an upper case U in the font is rather distasteful in my experience.

Similarly for Republics and Monarchies, when there is a good leader who sees to it that the needs of the people are met as much as possible, then the people will generally be quite happy. When the leader doesn't take care of the needs of the people properly and just enjoys the luxeries of being a President or a King, then life tends to become miserable for the majority of the people.

E. Timmermans

 

… There has been a major change though. The last time I went there, in 2018, I noticed a lot of people in big cities like New York, Saint Louis and San Fransisco were living in poverty. Much more so than in the eighties. Nowadays, it has become ‘normal’ for the average low to middle educated worker with kids to need to work 2 or 3 jobs in order just to survive with the famlily …

 

…Similarly for Republics and Monarchies, when there is a good leader who sees to it that the needs of the people are met as much as possible, then the people will generally be quite happy …

We must clearly understand the reasons for this general decline in lifestyle, which some can attribute to the end of communism (which gave everyone education and access to health care) or to the end of the benefits of triumphant capitalism in the United States, this decline has little connection with the politics of the country, except in the extreme cases of dictatorships.
The 20th century was governed and built by almost free carbon energy, but it's over, and in Europe household income has been in decline since 2010, it's not a crisis, it's structural, this is solely due to the decline in the quantity of available oil.
The repercussions that we are starting to see will be severe with the decline of the tertiary sector and megacities.
To be informed, I recommend this comic book which was the best selling book in France in 2022.

Yugoslavia was also a popular holiday destination for Czechoslovaks, however, for a special passport only for Yugoslavia, the fulfillment of the conditions - consent of the trade union, recommendation of superiors and integrity - was finally given the stamp of the state security with consent to travel.

GDR, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania - there, a so-called travel card was enough, which was just a paper with consent to visit a friendly foreign country.

No one really volunteered to go to the Soviet Union, only some races organized a trip or children-pioneers and the youth union organized camps.

,, The West and capitalist countries - very few people were allowed to get an international passport there, and always after the approval of the state security - the reasons were documented and the applications were approved by many authorities. So really only a select few.,,

So that Yugoslavia was such an intermediate link for us - between hard communism and the West.

My memories from my youth: every summer about the holidays "July-August" -many female teachers had permission to visit Yugoslavia.

However, regularly - every holiday, a fellow teacher with her husband and children applied for asylum by crossing Austria and emigrated to the West.

At the beginning of the new school year, after the holidays, in an address to the children and teachers, comrade the school director informed as follows:

  ,, Unfortunately, children, your teacher,,XYZ,, a terrible tragedy happened to her in Yugoslavia: ,,she was eaten by a shark there,,

It was so frequent and regular that even comrades from the Politburo began to realize it, and sometime in 1978, teachers in the country - Yugoslavia were banned from going to the sea - they were recommended "Balaton", a lake in Hungary.

So the humor was because every year a shark eats a teacher in the sea where this does not happen - we laughed at the beginning of the school year - because everyone knew what happened, it was just not allowed to say it out loud.          So lies - holding the population by force but also humor and hilarity. All.

Ivan

Hello,
I'm closing this topic, as it repeatedly led to replies that don't respect the forum policy, especially the point 8.

Messages aiming at stating political or religious views or controversial historic interpretations are not authorized.