We currently have two entries for France P#73, this regular one and this for a date error, together with a separate page for P#84, which only differs in one signature title. I certainly think the two P#73 pages should be merged but I would also suggest merging that with the page for P#84. If we don't do the second merger, we need to indicate the difference clearly on both pages.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
The greatest difference is the color of the underprint (don't know if one faded but the black of the signatures is still very strong), in the design the only difference I could see are the eyes which are very different.
I think those apparant differences are just because the example with the date error is in rather poor condition. You can see a variety of shades in the notes shown here.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
The image for p84 appears to have a slight yellow colour cast on it in the scan. I think both are essentially the same colour [I had a quick look at the two images in Photoshop and removed the colour cast, which brought colours in the two scans much closer to each other. Both images are good quality scans in terms of luminosity]. However, the difference in the eyes is quite striking – enough to possibly warrant a different listing.
A few questions on the difference in the eyes: 1. How were the notes printed? If in a sheet, was the differences in the eyes a random difference between each of the positions on the sheet of notes, so that they appear on examples of notes from both p84 and p73? 2. If the difference in the eyes is split between the two different issues, one set of eyes for each, is that sufficient to separate the two listings?
To answer the eyes question, we would need to look at a lot of notes, or consult a good catalogue on the notes. A difference like this would likely have been noticed by the specialist collecting community and commented on, were it to be something other than a random difference between plates. There are possibly other small differences also.
I would go with merging the error note with the listing for the accurately printed note. Errors ought to not be listed separately, imo.
If we look at what Pick says, it's only the signature title that's mentioned. Nothing about colour. Look at the pages on Banknote Museum, P#73 & P#84. Lots of colour variation due to state of preservation and imaging technique/equipment but nothing consistently different between the two.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Im with Ceh as to color. While I hate condensing pages, if it is a sig title and just one date line then I think it could be handled on a single page. Is this a case of the French collector wanting these color differences and seperate pages?
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
I was going to suggest asking the referees but we don't have any for French banknotes! I wondered if it meant “dates from 3/1/1928 to 18/5/1928” but I suspect not as there are far too many "-1"s.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
I have examined the P#73 and the P#84 listings closely, I have also looked at every photograph we show for these 10 franc notes. When you see a P#73 followed by a 3-1/31-12-1937, (that is just made up number I am using for this example, ) my best guess is that it is the way some incredibly complicated French catalog is showing a listing with that date. As a range, for example, January 3 thru December 31 of 1937. That is my best guess. I think they are trying to align the data to a Pick number. It is a lot of data.
My thought is that if you can contact Monaimalagas, and I am not sure I remembered that right, that you might get better information on that data, since they are the one who created almost single handedly all of the French listings.
I hope this has been helpful.
Benjamin
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
I'm trying to adjust the information that appears in the annual registration lines.
What I already noticed is that in P#84, there is a line for each known full date (year-month-day); while in P#73, the lines are concentrated in years (without considering months or days - which I particularly think is even better).
The additional information that Jarcek mentioned are, in fact, ranges of issuance dates (since the registration at P#73 is more condensed, as I mentioned above).
After I organized the annual lines of the two registries, we reevaluated the merger. My opinion is that it could be put together, despite the fact that there will be lots and lots of date lines.
Regards,
Vladimir
Vladimir
Catalogue Administrator and Banknote Master Referee.
The demonetization dates are correct but the banknotes were exchangeable at the Bank of France until 2012
We musn't confuse the concept of demonetization and removal of legal-tender status. In 1933, production of the 10 francs notes ceased and they lost their legal tender status at the end of the year. They were then produced again from 1936 but not released into circulation until 1939, the same year the signature title changed. We have the notes split by the signature title, thus listing the 1936 and 1937 notes as having been demonetized in 1933! The best way of describing this complicated history is to combine the two notes, with the page showing the final date for removal of legal-tender status (1/1/1963) and the demonetization date (1/1/2004). A note in the comments on the temporary suspension of legal-tender status will then clarify the situation.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
This topic will be closed and we will continue to wait for the referee to review the entries and adjust things. Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion.
Regards,
Vladimir.
Vladimir
Catalogue Administrator and Banknote Master Referee.
Status changed to Done(vladthiengo, 19 Nis 2025, 13:42)
