For me, the point of Brexit was to regain some control over things like borders, expenditure, currency, laws, international policy, and who in the world we trade with, etc. etc. as well as spend the money on more national orientated benefits, such as the NHS, border control, the police. I'm not sure many of these have been achieved.
However, the wider concerns about the EU include the utter waste of money (the Strasbourg/Brussels relocation farce, propping up failing EU economies, a lack of financial discipline within the Euro, etc.), interference in our judiciary process, ridiculous legal directives, open borders, a disjointed EU international policy (i.e. The Ukraine - a broadly spineless approach to Russia), the in or out nature of the Euro and it's inbuilt prejudices, and the hypocrisy of some countries who whole heartedly support the EU but then don't ratify its directives into their own laws. None of this has changed.
Many things are now more difficult, especially travel and trade. But, I don't believe the final destination of Brexit has been reached yet. What's more, there may even be others joining us in the future, especially after the recent EU elections.
Ultimately, it's still too early to tell. I hope it works out for the best, but maybe the only good that will come from it is that the rest of the EU will realise that they can't carry on as they are.
The problem is in practice it is implemented by politicians that in the most part are actively against the concept, and have implemented as little as they can as poorly as they think they can get away with.
100% a big mistake but I’ll stop there to avoid myself writing a novel about the issues which will likely upset both sides of the spectrum.
Hi to whoever is reading this. Did you know that TYPEWRITER (on a QWERTY keyboard) is the longest word you can type using only the letters on one row of the keyboard.
I asked, because I was listening to an interview on Bloomberg radio with someone who claimed it was an economic disaster from the start. But there was certainly more to Brexit than just economics, and I heard that aspect wasn't as bad as anticipated.
It's one of those things where I can see both sides of the argument. I live in part of the UK which the EU, whilst we were still a part of it, labelled as “developing” as it did with some of the poorer parts of Europe (think Eastern / Balkans).
In this area, we've lost substantial industry to cheaper, frequently EU producers. So jobs aren't as easy to get. Coupled with large net migration often by people who are prepared to accept lower wages as they can save up, then go home & lived well. So then employers hire at lower rates.
So its hard to get a job, and then jobs on offer don't pay too well.
Then there's all the infrastructure difficulties which haven't kept up with our increased population. NHS, dentists, that sort of thing.
Brexit claimed we would be more able to control our borders (great job they're doing too 🙄) which might then reduce competition & increase wages. Reduced population would ease the burden on the infrastructure.
We could ensure the immigrants we did receive were either in demand specialists or otherwise self supporting.
Then there's the sort of fear mongering racism where immigrants are disproportionately criminal. Obviously, the supermajority are decent folk & fit in well with the British way of life. You know the sort of things I mean though. All black people are part of thug gangs. All middle Eastern folk are terrorist extremists. Ludicrous but it will still exist in the subconscious.
Obviously there's a lot more at play, but I can understand how from a social-economic point, people would vote for Brexit. It was a vote to change for people who have effectively been left behind. I know several people who will tell you that their leave vote was more a protest against the current situation than anything else.
Of course, little has changed because instead of European migrants, now we have global migrants. The problem hasn't changed really.
From a pure business economics side, not so great. Making it harder to trade with your closest & largest trading partner was never going to work.
I think the UK also tends to be a more global looking nation whereas most of Europe tends to be more insular. Really only France has any significant outer looking feeling. Obviously relics from both our empire days.
Plus being geographically separate, we've not had the same experience as most other European nations. At some point in probably the last hundred years or so, most of Europe has been physically under the heel of another. Britain hasn't really ever been fully subdued ever. The notable events have been the Romans who took most of England & Wales, and William of Normandy who claimed England through conquest.
Plus our break with the Catholic Church was much earlier than the other power houses of Europe.
So we're not quite of the same mindset. We're more of a European observer than a part of Europe. We don't have that feeling of belong to Europe. And I think that swayed people too.
I generally agree with the majority of the European principles but I dislike how the EU operates too. It's grown too big, too beaucratic. It's losing it's way.
For what it's worth, I believe we should have remained - it is easier to restore the EU back to where it should be from the inside.
But we're out & we must make the best of it. Maybe in the long run, we'll discover we were right to leave. Maybe sentiments may change & we'll come back.
Either way, I hope we can agree to get along & play nicely as friends. 🙂
No - too many rules in EU. Plus the hordes of migrants are causing issues and I see a huge backlash in the next decade. Diversity and tolerance have not worked.
Britain was stuffed before Brexit, the inept Conservative government had sucked the guts out of everything good and totally neglected the poor, young and working class white Britons - all to please the elderly and upper class people. They have been in power too long and I hope that they are voted way out. But then again I doubt Labour will do much better. Britain has been declining since Thatcher destroyed the heart of the country.
Neoliberalism never builds, just destroys.
EU won't last much longer, all the right wingers and populists will leave it until EU is just Germany.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Absolutely not, I have opposed UK membership since day one when I voted against joining in 1975 (which was done before the vote was put to the public by the Heath government) we were taken in illegally but left legally.
Several political parties in individual countries have this tendency to leave the EU, but it is important to solve and find the best solution for a great life without borders and killing - and that is the goal of the creation of the EU - so that we learn to live together and not constantly attack and kill each other.
I know the question is for GB collectors, but today is exactly 8 years since the referendum where the citizens of GB expressed themselves:
,,My opinion, EU weakened it a lot and GB didn't strengthen it much, Everyone lost.,,
In France, the last national referendum organized about the EU was to approve the European constitutional treaty on 2005. The “no” vote largely won. But, unlike England, France did not take into account the result of this popular consultation and ratified the treaty in 2005. In France we ask the question to the people and we do the opposite of what they express, it's somehow funny ... When we ask the people their opinion on Europe, old people are against, young people agree.
England preferred to massacre hopes of its youth and listen to the old. Europe is not just money, it is hope for young people. Well, England has always only been part of Europe. I am in Europe but I want special treatment, less contribution, more privileges, etc. Culinary-wise, the food was already horrible in England and things couldn't have gotten better and London lost its predominant place as a financial center, but overall it doesn't seem to be an economic disaster for this country. England has successfully negotiated its ecological turn by developing its nuclear electricity plants, Greater London has well planned the restructuring of its transport network (train, car). What we saw during Brexit was that Nigel Farage and the disheveled blond fellow temporarily disappeared from the political scene because they were so surprised by their victory and did not know what to do afterwards.
Brexit would be very beneficial for the U.K. - as the U.K. is now free to engage in its own independent foreign relations policies, especially in terms of relations with other British Commonwealth countries that have King Charles III as head of state.
I am very happy to have King Charles III as my King.
Young people in European countries feel subject to the European Union and would like to follow the example of Brexit Would young people from Commonwealth countries who are subject to the King of England be ready to separate from them? Independence definitely has many faces
Young people in European countries feel subject to the European Union and would like to follow the example of Brexit …
What you say is nonsense, you generalize your own beliefs without any basis without looking at surveys on a European scale. If it's just telling untruths, you better shut up.
Young people in European countries feel subject to the European Union and would like to follow the example of Brexit …
What you say is nonsense, you generalize your own beliefs without any basis without looking at surveys on a European scale. If it's just telling untruths, you better shut up.
There's a very well known phrase in the English language - ‘Lies, damn lies, and statistics’.
Not sure how that translates into French, but I'm sure there must be something similar. Anybody with even the most basic grasp of statistical modeling will tell you that it's very easy to manipulate a survey or the data it produces to create an argument for or against. The EU has undoubtedly suffered from that during the recent elections and we in the UK still have another week or so to endure of somewhat dodgy statistical interpretations before we go to the polls. I think that CREPOSUC referred to the opinions of ‘young people’, a segment of society who, to my knowledge, have not yet been separately surveyed for their opinions on the EU.
I'm sure that everyone in Europe, as well as much of the rest of the world, will have their own opinion about Brexit. So, let's all remember the question that was asked - Do you believe Brexit was a mistake?
Young people in European countries feel subject to the European Union and would like to follow the example of Brexit Would young people from Commonwealth countries who are subject to the King of England be ready to separate from them? Independence definitely has many faces
The monarchy is very popular here in New Zealand.
The title ‘King (or Queen) of England’ ceased to exist in 1707, when England & Scotland united under the Acts of Union 1707 to create the United Kingdom of Great Britain.
King Charles III has done a lot of good for many people in Commonwealth countries - & he doesn't even have to say anything from the rooftop , considering he is so well known for things he promoted that were way ahead of their time.
Anybody with even the most basic grasp of statistical modeling will tell you that it's very easy to manipulate a survey or the data it produces to create an argument for or against
…
Of course it is easy to twist a question to get a biased answer, but in this case, the question posed to European youth is simple.
Are you in favor of European construction? - Yes : 59% - No : 16% - I don't know : 15% - I do not want to answer : 9%
And you can look at the results of several polls, they are not contradictory.
Anybody with even the most basic grasp of statistical modeling will tell you that it's very easy to manipulate a survey or the data it produces to create an argument for or against
…
Of course it is easy to twist a question to get a biased answer, but in this case, the question posed to European youth is simple.
Are you in favor of European construction? - Yes : 59% - No : 16% - I don't know : 15% - I do not want to answer : 9%
And you can look at the results of several polls, they are not contradictory.
I would suggest “the further integration of Europe”. Yet the expressions ”European construction" and “construction of Europe” are accepted in europa.eu documents. See this excellent site.
The graph I showed above is a summary of this study (page 139) produced by the Research Center for the Study and Observation of Living Conditions under the responsibility of the General Directorate for Competition, Consumption and Fraud Repression which represents the French state.
The study is comprehensive with thousands of youngs and begins by asking whether young French people feel like European citizens Yes: 83% No. 9% w/o opinion: 4%
Then a comparison between the 27 countries of the European Union
Then comes the opinion of young people regarding the future of European construction.
The term construction can be understood as a further integration of countries into Europe. There are lots of cases studied in this survey (mobility, work, etc...) but it is necessary to summarize.
38% do not comment or do not know which option to choose among those offered to them.
The most shared opinion is that of continuing European construction, divided into four opinion groups (59% in 2022): - continue construction in “most areas” - continue construction without federalism - accelerate further construction, with the creation of a “United States of Europe” government, - pursue a more restricted construction, focused on a few areas in particular.
Finally, the desire to grant priority to national sovereignty, whether by slowing down European construction or by leaving the European Union is in the minority (16% in 2022)
One of the aims of the EU and its roots was to prevent another major war in Europe. From 1945 until Russia invaded Ukraine, we have had one of the longest periods of continuous peace in Europe since the Roman Empire - something not to be sneezed at. This peace in part has been a result of the EU, and also of NATO. The EU gives many smaller countries an equal voice, countries which would not otherwise be heard.
It is up to the people of EU member nations to decide the future of the EU by voting in or out their politicians, especially their MEP according to their policies on the EU.
It is up to the people of EU member nations to decide the future of the EU by voting in or out their politicians, especially their MEP according to their policies on the EU.
I agree.
Without giving my opinion because the vote is secret, but the general opinion is no longer either a poll or a statistic, it is the voice of the ballot boxes on June 9, 2024. Sunday we will see what happens next. Without prognosis.
With the UK Elections looming, quite a bit of talk at work ends up in political conversations.
Something that cropped up was that the EU felt too much like a central government exercising too much control over individual members.
A fair comparison was the USA, where you have the national government & the state level.
And much like the US states, whilst there's a lot of common ground, there's also considerable difference between them. Which can cause trouble if the central government forces a policy to which the state level fundamentally opposes. We've seen how wildly different the political scene of the US is especially in relatively recent years.
In a broad overview, many liked the EU as a trading block but disliked the idea of a singular government.
Someone said that it felt like they were being tricked into giving up British citizenship for European citizenship.
We aren't being asked “Should we form a federal government which can overrule your chosen government?”, yet it feels like that's how the EU is acting.
It's trying to sneakily create a “federal” government. Whether it is or not is debatable (given the public existence of the Maastricht treaty) but its the feeling which the EU isn't taking steps to prove wrong.
In essence, they were happy for the EU to set standards for goods but wanted it left to the national government to choose how that was implemented, and to set pretty much everything else. (E.g. immigration quotas, subsidised industries, laws).
An oversimplified opinion would be to revert back to EEC levels of integration.
Also to have smaller contribution fees came up frequently. We have enough broken stuff here. We should only pay enough to cover the operational costs of the trade block. Why should our taxes go towards improving the lives of a net receiver nation (i.e. takes more than puts in) when so many of our own aren't getting by. It is the responsibility of that country to look after it's citizens, not ours.
Sure if everything here was rainbows & happiness & we had surplus, then help others. But get ourselves together first.
I'll not take too much of a stand here, but just wanted to share some observations. 🙂
The graph I showed above is a summary of this study (page 139) produced by the Research Center for the Study and Observation of Living Conditions under the responsibility of the General Directorate for Competition, Consumption and Fraud Repression which represents the French state.
The study is comprehensive with thousands of youngs and begins by asking whether young French people feel like European citizens Yes: 83% No. 9% w/o opinion: 4%
Then a comparison between the 27 countries of the European Union
Then comes the opinion of young people regarding the future of European construction.
The term construction can be understood as a further integration of countries into Europe. There are lots of cases studied in this survey (mobility, work, etc...) but it is necessary to summarize.
38% do not comment or do not know which option to choose among those offered to them.
The most shared opinion is that of continuing European construction, divided into four opinion groups (59% in 2022): - continue construction in “most areas” - continue construction without federalism - accelerate further construction, with the creation of a “United States of Europe” government, - pursue a more restricted construction, focused on a few areas in particular.
Finally, the desire to grant priority to national sovereignty, whether by slowing down European construction or by leaving the European Union is in the minority (16% in 2022)
Good to hear from a committed Europhile. Most people start to buckle when the topic strays onto the the EU's indecisiveness on Ukraine, open borders, the migrant issue, or the the phenomenal waste of money that is the Parliamentary move every 6 months between Strasbourg and Brussels, etc. etc.. Not to mention an EU Directive measuring the bend on bananas - a favourite topic here in the UK for Eurobashers 😁
As for the question of whether Brexit was a mistake - I still can't decide whether the UK would be better off in or out (is it better to be in the mess arguing for change, or well rid of it hoping they come to the conclusion themselves that they need to sort the mess out).
Not to mention an EU Directive measuring the bend on bananas - a favourite topic here in the UK for Eurobashers 😁
…
Although measuring the bend on bananas may be a serious problem for mature who don't want to eat blue pills, there are more serious topics that can raise questions: How can we imagine that a solution for future generations could involve an Europe which goes into debt through recovery credits in addition to the already phenomenal debt of each country (except certain countries like Germany). Isn't this a race forward that resembles Ponzi fraud and pyramid selling?
Several political parties in individual countries have this tendency to leave the EU, but it is important to solve and find the best solution for a great life without borders and killing - and that is the goal of the creation of the EU - so that we learn to live together and not constantly attack and kill each other.
I know the question is for GB collectors, but today is exactly 8 years since the referendum where the citizens of GB expressed themselves:
,,My opinion, EU weakened it a lot and GB didn't strengthen it much, Everyone lost.,,
Ivan
The pandemic caused a seismic wave in the transition period, I am certain that without the pandemic the transition would have been far better and that world trade would never have suffered the cataclysmic collapse that happened
I wish you a relaxing weekend on the whole planet.
Our school-aged children started their two-month summer vacation today. Yes, we can have different opinions on Brexit, but that's all. 8 years ago they decided to leave the EU, it projects a free choice.
Dear collectors from other parts of the world, I know that there are many countries in Africa and Asia that would give, I don't know what, if they could be among us. Between countries where we can move freely, mostly pay with a single currency (except for us numismatists - national currencies would suit us)
Whatever your opinions, the fact is that our lives are in an advanced society with a high standard of living. We don't have famine, we have excellent education...
Overall, we are at an excellent level in the EU, and if we don't have domestic politicians, ministries and governments, I don't think it matters at all - we will only be cursing that one person from Brussels.
And not like now, we curse at the home government and moreover we also curse at EU laws, so let there be only one parliament and government, peoples can live freely and in the spirit of their traditions.
I was the youth of the day that didn't get a choice if I wanted in now I am the older generation and I wanted out I was very fortunate to be given the choice.
I wish you a relaxing weekend on the whole planet.
Our school-aged children started their two-month summer vacation today. Yes, we can have different opinions on Brexit, but that's all. 8 years ago they decided to leave the EU, it projects a free choice.
Dear collectors from other parts of the world, I know that there are many countries in Africa and Asia that would give, I don't know what, if they could be among us. Between countries where we can move freely, mostly pay with a single currency (except for us numismatists - national currencies would suit us)
Whatever your opinions, the fact is that our lives are in an advanced society with a high standard of living. We don't have famine, we have excellent education...
Overall, we are at an excellent level in the EU, and if we don't have domestic politicians, ministries and governments, I don't think it matters at all - we will only be cursing that one person from Brussels.
And not like now, we curse at the home government and moreover we also curse at EU laws, so let there be only one parliament and government, peoples can live freely and in the spirit of their traditions.
And this is the goal - the joy of life and the preservation of ancestral traditions.
Ivan
Thanks for being so upbeat about what the EU brings to us all in the face of some of the doom and gloom above. I too agree that the EU brings a lot to the table under a banner of unity and peace after hundreds of years of petty infighting amongst European nations.
I think that's a big part of why it was such a difficult decision for some to accept that Brexit was the solution and for the Remainers to so passionately stand against our withdrawal. The ardent Brexiteers were always going to say ‘Out’ and all they needed was a simple majority to determine that we should leave. But, that is the beauty of a democracy; that the people's voice is heard regardless of what their leaders believe, which is unfortunately not such a universal truth when you look beyond the EU's borders (or sometimes, within).
That is why I'm so surprised that the EU has such an ‘all or nothing’ approach, especially in relation to foreign policy and trade. It risks being viewed as indecisive by its friends or just plain weak by those less democratic countries who are determined to undermine what we all clearly stand for - democracy and peace. How can one or two small countries scupper a majority view so effectively that they put at risk the whole of the group's security or economic wellbeing by doggedly sticking to old alliances or cultural practices. Indeed, Britain has its own historic alliances too, but we stayed bound by the wider views of the community as a whole not to trade with countries such as Canada, India and Australia etc. until the EU agreed that everyone could benefit. It is those inconsistencies for me that sit at the heart of Brexit.
I too thought about my children's' future when I voted. I thought that Britain's voice was too weak amongst a group of countries that seem to have their own allegiances, economic practices and cultures so fundamentally at heart, but still claim to be good Europeans. My overwhelming conclusion was that most of our ‘European Friends’ actually prefer to do precisely what they think is right for them, regardless of the consequences for their neighbours, and that the EU simply doesn’t recognise a majority view or have the same values as the British.
Better off out than in. We now, at least, have a whole Commonwealth of countries to trade and rekindle alliances with.
I wish you a relaxing weekend on the whole planet.
Our school-aged children started their two-month summer vacation today. Yes, we can have different opinions on Brexit, but that's all. 8 years ago they decided to leave the EU, it projects a free choice.
Dear collectors from other parts of the world, I know that there are many countries in Africa and Asia that would give, I don't know what, if they could be among us. Between countries where we can move freely, mostly pay with a single currency (except for us numismatists - national currencies would suit us)
Whatever your opinions, the fact is that our lives are in an advanced society with a high standard of living. We don't have famine, we have excellent education...
Overall, we are at an excellent level in the EU, and if we don't have domestic politicians, ministries and governments, I don't think it matters at all - we will only be cursing that one person from Brussels.
And not like now, we curse at the home government and moreover we also curse at EU laws, so let there be only one parliament and government, peoples can live freely and in the spirit of their traditions.
And this is the goal - the joy of life and the preservation of ancestral traditions.
Ivan
Thanks for being so upbeat about what the EU brings to us all in the face of some of the doom and gloom above. I too agree that the EU brings a lot to the table under a banner of unity and peace after hundreds of years of petty infighting amongst European nations.
I think that's a big part of why it was such a difficult decision for some to accept that Brexit was the solution and for the Remainers to so passionately stand against our withdrawal. The ardent Brexiteers were always going to say ‘Out’ and all they needed was a simple majority to determine that we should leave. But, that is the beauty of a democracy; that the people's voice is heard regardless of what their leaders believe, which is unfortunately not such a universal truth when you look beyond the EU's borders (or sometimes, within).
That is why I'm so surprised that the EU has such an ‘all or nothing’ approach, especially in relation to foreign policy and trade. It risks being viewed as indecisive by its friends or just plain weak by those less democratic countries who are determined to undermine what we all clearly stand for - democracy and peace. How can one or two small countries scupper a majority view so effectively that they put at risk the whole of the group's security or economic wellbeing by doggedly sticking to old alliances or cultural practices. Indeed, Britain has its own historic alliances too, but we stayed bound by the wider views of the community as a whole not to trade with countries such as Canada, India and Australia etc. until the EU agreed that everyone could benefit. It is those inconsistencies for me that sit at the heart of Brexit.
I too thought about my children's' future when I voted. I thought that Britain's voice was too weak amongst a group of countries that seem to have their own allegiances, economic practices and cultures so fundamentally at heart, but still claim to be good Europeans. My overwhelming conclusion was that most of our ‘European Friends’ actually prefer to do precisely what they think is right for them, regardless of the consequences for their neighbours, and that the EU simply doesn’t recognise a majority view or have the same values as the British.
Better off out than in. We now, at least, have a whole Commonwealth of countries to trade and rekindle alliances with.
I live in New Zealand - whose head of state is the same as that of the U.K. - the very popular & well respected King Charles III.
Brexit will do wonders in terms of free trade agreements between the U.K. & other British Commonwealth countries.
All previous posts have one pointer in common.(in my opinion)
I read everywhere it is,, good for business,,
Trading.
Also,, bargain trading,,
So export and favorable import of goods, that is the main point of intersection in independence. Nostalgia for the "colonial world" breathes on me, still living at the expense of countries where the standard of living is lower, thus supplying medicine, technology and taking manpower, resources, minerals and advantageously taking them to the island.
The cooperation of equals and mutual group work in a self-sufficient own market without dependence is not beneficial for everyone.
Read how many times trade with former colonies appears at the end of your posts.
My question : Is it an equal trade??
Which country without foreign workers in the lowest places would collapse? And it's not modern-day slavery with a human face - however, the wage only reflects the cost of housing and food - that's all?
These are not remnants of nostalgia which, as it turns out, will not come back - on the contrary, the new reality of today threatens - we will be overrun by population - whoever gives birth to more children will win.
Looking at it from the outside, there are certainly pros and cons of the Brexit situation for the Uk as well as Europe.
Pros for the UK include a full handle over its trade agreements and border controls.
Cons include the little Britain dilemma in a World trending to multi polar points of economic and political power. So going forward, all the credit for what goes right and what goes wrong can unequivocally be attributed to the policy successes and missteps of various UK govts.
For Europe, with the UK jettisoned, there’s less of heel dragging from a power that didn’t really see itself as part of the continent.
Cons at the same time include the EU becoming smaller by $3TN and losing a major defence power that could have helped it build a “European” army
From my POV, the EU is hobbled by its bureaucracy and its system of consensus policy making. With the push and pull from so many member countries with different economic and geo political realities, it seems paralyzed and slowly heading towards implosion. As a huge trading block, it is suppose to shelter its members from global vagaries, but it is so full of holes that it can be easily influenced by other world powers can pick off the weaker countries within the block.
The UK at best looks like it may muddle through while gradually declining into irrelevance as it attempts to try to hitch its global ambition to the US. But being such a junior partner to the US, or even Europe, can they even be classified as a partner at all?.
Time will tell. But as of now, power shifts to the east while the share of the western (G7) economies shrink quite aggressively in the world economy. I think the world will look very different over the next 10, 20, 30 years and so on. For what it’s worth, I think the EU has served the continent well in maintaining peace and stability. However it will have to change and adapt as the world has quickly moved from a sole superpower to a multi polar world
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