I couldn't find these coins in the Catalogue - Could you help ?

Hi,

Hope it's okay to ask queries about a couple of “coins” (one I believe is a simian) which I can't find in the catalogue

The first I think is a British George III simian but its quite distinctive (eyebrow) 

The second on the obverse reads Glorious Iervis [Jervis] with a Bust and on the Reverse Hira Rosa 1769 with a Harp for Ireland

Many thanks for your help

Once I know where they are in catalogue I'll add my images

Best Regards

Richard

RichardH

Hi,

 

Hope it's okay to ask queries about a couple of “coins” (one I believe is a simian) which I can't find in the catalogue

 

The first I think is a British George III simian but its quite distinctive (eyebrow) 

 

If first coin weights around 5 grams, that's farthing. If it weights 10 grams - half penny.

N#13152

N#5335

Dotted circle around the edge is worn off.

Clear all settings in coin search form. Select United Kingdom, British overseas … as country. Enter 1770-1779 year as range cause your reverse got year on the bottom. Search.

Hi Tokul

Apologies I should have added some more information.

The first coin is  halfpenny but won't appear under the half penny link.

If you look at the obverse Britannia's arm it is stick like, unlike the Royal Mint half pennies of the time.  I believe it is a Simian Halfpenny, but couldn't find this design . “George III” in this design has a “huge” eyebrow for example

For the second coin (also a halfpenny) it doesn't appear under Jervis or Iervis (it is John Jervis later Earl St Vincent)

Very Best

Richard

simian

--

adjective

1. of or relating to any of the monkeys or apes.
2. characteristic of apes or monkeys: long, simian fingers.
3. Disparaging and Offensive. (used to describe a member of a racial or ethnic minority group, especially a Black person.)

Maybe find better word to describe coin.

Hi Tokui

Again thank you for your comments 

Maybe there should be a different word used to describe these coin types 

It is as far as I am aware though a current standard term (please see Numista description below)

½ Penny - George II (Simian counterfeit) - United Kingdom – Numista

Hopefully someone will be able to assist in the identification of the two coins

Thank you 

"Birmingham copper" counterfeit referred to as "Simian" due to the ape like arms on Reverse.

Seems to fit definitions #1 and #2.  You want Numista to use ½ Penny - George II Monkey or Ape like counterfeit ?

Hi rsirian1 

I'm okay with the description as it stands. It appears in all the literature I have seen on the subject

But it is a Numista decision. Tokul for example wasn't comfortable using that word.

So I'll leave that to you

On the coins - which is the reason we post

I seem to think that I have seen another example of the 1st counterfeit halfpenny (George III) but I cannot track it down

On the second coin  Iervis (or Jervis) coin [in print in Great  Britain up until at least the 1820's “J” was sometimes with “I”) I have as yet not found this type but I think it is an evasion halfpenny 

If anyone on Numista has access to a publication curiously called 

“A Journey through the Monkalokian rain forests in search of the Spiney Fubbaduck. (Evasions)”

I would be grateful if they could take a look and see if the Iervis halfpenny is listed 

There apparently are no pictures but there are detailed descriptions

Best Regards

Richard