Counterfeits among Weimar 1923 banknotes?

9 posts • viewed 122 times

Hi, I'm a bit of a newbie to banknotes, but decided to build on a couple old Weimar banknotes that I had received as a child. I recently bought a few 1923 notes from a top (and highly rated) seller on eBay, paying $3 to 5 each. I was surprised to see how crisp these uncirculated notes are--like…perfect. From what I can tell, the watermarks match what's indicated online, and the trade prices for some of these notes (here on Numista) are in line with what I paid for them, but I am not easily shaking the thought that there is a risk of counterfeit notes circulating. Even where I have seen other dealers online with bank-wrapped packs of perfect Weimar notes, I'm so surprised that these made it through the war, in such perfect condition, and in sufficient number that they still so cheap after 100 years. 

 

I haven't found much online either about the provenance of these packs of notes, or others' suspicion / knowledge of counterfeits in this particular corner of the market. Does anyone have any ideas as to either? Thanks in advance.

Hello 🤖

 

Without pictures, it will be very difficult for anyone to help you. Could you please post clear pictures of each side of your item?

 

Please note that this is an automatic message. Feel free to ignore if it is not relevant.

Here are two of them. 

 

In the first example, the note doesn't have a serial number, although the entry on Numista suggests that some were printed (privately, in Berlin) without one: N#202226

 

In the second example, the serial number is in a different place than the example here on Numista: N#203604

 

 

Literal kilos of these were the value of a loaf of bread at times. Nobody made the effort of unwrapping stacks of these notes unless you wanted to use them as wallpaper. So you often can find bundles of them in UNC condition. 

Deutsche Inflation 1914 bis 1923 – WikipediaDie 1923-HyperinflationChildren playing with stacks of hyperinflated currency during the Weimar  Republic, 1922 - Rare Historical PhotosWheelbarrows of Money | Keri M. Peardon

As @Idolenz puts it: wheel barrels of hyperinflation notes were produced back then & stored in vaults. Since there was huge quantities, prices remained flat (& probably will) remain low (despite age). Their value is tied into: how many issued, how useful they were (& did they have purchasing power?), plus how many were kept (& in what condition) + demand. Most hyperinflation currency wasn't worth the paper it was printed on & since they became useless, they were stored. Later they were distributed to numismatic dealers for pennies a piece.  It would cost more to print them this good so I doubt they're fake. 

 

There are some lower denominations that few Germans kept & these can be quite tough-scarce from that pre-hyperinflation era. Many of us have seen the 1914 20 Marks (P-46b) in great condition but try to get the earlier 1906-1909 versions! (I have an UNC P-46b myself). 

 

Later issues from post WW2, from the Federal Republic of Germany (1948 issues) like the 5 & 10 Deutsche Mark  had value, were workhorses (highly circulated) so tough to source in high grades & these have healthy demand, & this keeps them pricey too.  

https://sites.google.com/view/notaphilycculture/collecting-banknotes

I really appreciated the replies here, and continue to do my homework on this. I think what may be happening, and if my suspicion is correct then it's cold water, is that there are in fact some high-quality** reproduction notes out there (see: https://www.ebay.com/itm/153947912119 and this seller: https://www.ebay.com/str/banknoten1) . That may be fine when labeled as such, but I just had a caveat emptor moment in which it struck me that some of these notes are slipping (inadvertently or otherwise) into what other online sellers are offering as “uncirculated”, with no mention of being a reproduction. 

 

**High-quality, not in the sense that they would confuse an authentication service but would confuse some amateurs.

Like, can paper from 1923 ever remain this bright? https://www.ebay.com/itm/186461615855

Sounds like somebody uses a commercial printer and prints banknote copies (but many of the photos are clearly of originals), if this is true she is a nice candidate for Interpol because her article list contains still valid notes, unless he prints them like in half the size or similar (also no watermarks would be present).

There's always some clown who makes reproductions but typically the reproductions are of a tough (or rare & popular) note. I suppose it could be that con artists are broadening their scope of what to copy. When I checked your links, there also appeared another couple sellers selling “reproduktions” such as this one (but at least they're listed as such). 

 

The bottom line is: eBay has always been the “wild, wild west” & if you're in doubt, pass.  Even though it used to be monitored & checked up on, I've seen this activity of reproductions expanding (& very little, if any, action taken). 

https://sites.google.com/view/notaphilycculture/collecting-banknotes

» Forum policy

Used time zone is UTC+2:00.
Current time is 16:54.