Additional Information Request - Elongated Coins

Would it be possible to automatically add a separate section to the submissions page that offers a place to identify the coin used when contributors select the option ‘Elongated Coins’ ?  It would certainly be interesting to know which coins are used to create these items, but also, this detail can have an impact on value.  This section should not normally be visible, but come up only when contributors select the ‘Elongated Coins’ option.  

Often, the back of a pressed penny has a flattened impression of the the coin that was originally used, which not only helps to date the item but can also provide some information about who created it.  The new section could be called ‘Base Coin Details’ and include options for whether the coin used is identifiable,  or if it was a blank token (see my coin from the Tower of London), the country the original coin is from, obverse/reverse (visible on back or front of item), size and shape, and if you can see a date.  

Hope this helps

I disagree, what they were is no longer important. They have been transformed into something new. If someone wishes to collect elongated items based on what was pressed and the year, I think they should use their coin pages and enter a new line, make a comment for themselves on it about their elongated coin. Make it public and if they want to trade it, others will see it.

I think it is a waste to have for example a Lincoln penny page of coins with years and then a Elongated Seattle Zoo penny collection by year as well. with a splash of Canadian pennies that got pressed too.

I do not know if it is necessary or makes sense.

You have the links field to add pages related to the current one. https://en.numista.com/help/links-134.html For example, in the elongated coin, add a link to the original coin.

But the help article does not say anything about elongated coins.

JLHare

I disagree, what they were is no longer important. 

I don't disagree but doesn't the fact that they have a composition specified kind of imply what they were is important?  If I use a 1980 penny to make an elongated coin but the coin page was made with a 1985 penny then I should have to make a new page with my composition?  

rsirian1

I don't disagree but doesn't the fact that they have a composition specified kind of imply what they were is important?  If I use a 1980 penny to make an elongated coin but the coin page was made with a 1985 penny then I should have to make a new page with my composition?  

Or what if a 1943 Lincoln Steel Penny is used? So then another page? I know the guidelines state that if the composition is different then a new page is created. I personally believe the composition should not cause a new page to be created for elongated coins. Just like a new page should not be created for a Canadian Penny or Lincoln penny elongated from the same machine. Or a new line just because the date is legible.

Some issues with Exonumia present certain problems that may just have to bend some of the guidelines.

That’s what I was trying to say. I think for the elongated coin type the composition category should not be available or the referee should delete it if it is entered before validating. 

I agree. The composition and weight would have to be removed.

rsirian1

I don't disagree but doesn't the fact that they have a composition specified kind of imply what they were is important?

In the UK one person could put a bronze penny in the machine, the next in line a plated steal penny, they both obtained the same design.

I believe that once squashed you are collecting designs not the underlying coin, it would be better if composition was removed from the elongated coins pages - because we are not listing them multiple times, we are listing by design.

(Edit) Need to type quicker. 😇

@LDC63, can you please clarify your idea? Do you suggest to add these details on the catalogue page of the elongated coin or attached to the item in your collection?

If anyone wants to check the history of adding elongated coins to Numista, he or she will find out that this category was after long discussion added solely based on end design. I also agree on removal of composition and who wants, he or she can put it in the comments.

Xavier

@LDC63, can you please clarify your idea? Do you suggest to add these details on the catalogue page of the elongated coin or attached to the item in your collection?

My idea was to extend the current submission page to include this additional information each time ‘Elengated Coins’ was selected.  I don't think it's necessary to have it come up each time a new submission is created, as this may cause confusion.  However, I'm not sure how that information should be recorded on the page itself, which may prove to be the spanner in the works.

From my perspective, I have a number of elengated coins that have been created by using coins other than the one recommended (i.e see 2 x designs from Neuschwanstein below).  As you can see, the effect on the pressed penny is quite different.  I can certainly see the point that the coin has been fundimentally changed so why refer to the original, but as you can see below, there is often a recognisable residual imprint that could be of interest.

N#330021 

N#330023 

As you can see, the impression of a 5 pfennig coin is clearly visible on the rear of my example above, unusual as most machines recommended using a 2 pfennig coin at the time.  I've previously seen something similar discussed on another website, but can't find the link atm, although I must admit that I don't think it was eventually impimented. 

Please understand that this is only a suggestion.  It's something I've thought about raising on Numista for some time now but never quite got around to doing so.  As you can see, it's intreguing to see the effects that different coins can have, but if people are generally against this option I'm content to let be.

LDC

Thanks for the clarification. 

I believe the best way to illustrate those variations is by using examples. You can submit an example by clicking “Register an example of this type” at the bottom of the page of the coin. There is a comment section where you can specify what the original coin was, its date, etc.

Xavier

I believe the best way to illustrate those variations is by using examples. You can submit an example by clicking “Register an example of this type” at the bottom of the page of the coin. There is a comment section where you can specify what the original coin was, its date, etc.

I know that Numista is your dream, and I thank you for having the opportunity to participate in your dream. And I will adhere to the rules you set forth in your dream. But, I would like voice my opinion and say I disagree with this part. 

A different coin for an elongated coin is not a variation. It is just a different coin that is no longer a coin. To me, a variation of an elongated coin would be a design style or lettering format, or slight placement of lettering. Which would only occur if a new machine was introduced to create the variant.