2021 W Eagle Uncirculated

I recently acquired a US Silver Eagle 2021 W Type 2 (Landing Eagle).  This coin was sold by the U.S. Mint as product # 21EGN..

I decided to acquire the 2021 W Type 1 (Heraldic Eagle) in the same uncirculated condition.  I can't find one.  eBay has over 5,000 (!)

listings for the various offerings, but no 2021 W unc.found.  To clarify, I am looking for the 2021 W (mintmarked “W” on reverse) in unc) .

There are a  LOT of Type 1 2021 W proof coins and a LOT of 2021 (no mintmark} coins struck at West Point and elsewhere available.  These are commonly noted as 2021 (W)

The Numista page shows 175,000 2021 W uncirculated coins struck .  This implies that these coins have the W mint mark. 

I have yet to see any on eBay or anywhere else. 

So,  my question is this:  Is this 175,000 figure correct ?   If so, can anyone provide more info - photos of an unc. 2021 W coin with the W mint mark ?

Hi tcmusic11.  The reason you can't find the Type 1 ASE (American Silver Eagle) Collector version from 2021 is because it doesn't exist.  For clarity, you're referring to the Collector version of the ASE bullion coin which was sold directly from the U.S. Mint to the public.  This specific coin has an "Uncirculated Finish" and the "W" Mint Mark on the Reverse side of the coin.  The U.S. Mint didn't make a Type 1 Collector ASE coin with an Uncirculated Finish and "W" Mint Mark on the Reverse side of the coin in 2021 since the U.S. Mint was (instead) transitioning over to Type 2 for the ASE's in 2021.  They only made a Type 2 version that year and that's the one you already own.

For what it's worth, the U.S. Mint did release an ASE Reverse Proof 2-coin Set in 2021 which provided both Type 1 and Type 2 examples of the ASE.  But it was a special proof set.  That's the set I bought several years ago in order to have both versions with a 2021 date.  It was called the "Designer Edition" and included 2 Proof ASE's.

Three varieties of the 2021 Type 1 were made, Proof W mint mark, Reverse Proof W mint mark and Uncirculated finish no mint mark.  The uncirculated finish were made at the West Point, Philadelphia and San Francisco mints.  There were telltale signs as to which mint made which coin so graded West Point UNC coins like this exist. The W Uncirculated year line should be removed.

rsirian1

Three varieties of the 2021 Type 1 were made, Proof W mint mark, Reverse Proof W mint mark and Uncirculated finish no mint mark.  The uncirculated finish were made at the West Point, Philadelphia and San Francisco mints.  There were telltale signs as to which mint made which coin so graded West Point UNC coins like this exist. The W Uncirculated year line should be removed.

 

Incorrect.  See the following original U.S. Mint Page:

“American Eagle 2021 One Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin”

https://www.usmint.gov/american-eagle-2021-one-ounce-silver-uncirculated-coin-21EGN.html

There's a big difference between the “2021(W)” issue and the “2021-W issue”.  The former has no Mint Mark because it's just a regular ASE bullion coin and the TPG tracked its source to the West Point Mint through the serial number on the packaging strap of the Monster box in which it was shipped.   However, the latter is a special collector version which actually does have a W mint mark on the Reverse side.  Hence, it has a separate design.

TonyCoins

 

Incorrect.  

? Are you saying there are Type 1 UNC with a W mint mark? The link you posted was for the Type 2.

rsirian1

TonyCoins

 

Incorrect.  

? Are you saying there are Type 1 UNC with a W mint mark? The link you posted was for the Type 2.

There is no Type 1 UNC Collector version with a W Mint mark for 2021.  There is a Type 2 Collector UNC version with a W Mint Mark for 2021.  The Year Line entry for the latter is separate because it does have a mintage of 175K and is a legitimately different coin since it has a W mint mark and was a Collector issue, not a regular bullion coin.  Therefore, what I'm saying is that the “2021 W Uncirculated” Year Line shouldn't be removed.

rsirian1

TonyCoins

 

Incorrect.  

? Are you saying there are Type 1 UNC with a W mint mark? The link you posted was for the Type 2.

Actually,  I was looking at the wrong catalog.   You're right.  That Year Line should be deleted.  I didn't notice that there was a separate Catalog for the Type 2:  N#298883

Sorry for the confusion.

To summarize:  

The "2021 W UNC" Year Line should be deleted from here for the (non-existent) Type 1, 2021 UNC Collector version:
N#1493

The "2021 W Burnished UNC line" for the Type 2, 2021 exists over here (which I didn't notice until just now):  

N#298883

(However, I don't know why it shows the mintage as 187,404).

TonyCoins

To summarize:  

 

The "2021 W UNC" Year Line should be deleted from here for the (non-existent) Type 1, 2021 UNC Collector version:
N#1493

 

 

Correct.  😉

Without going into a very long story, the entire Type 1 ASE Heraldic Eagle page and other dates could use a lot of editing, including referring to it as a TYPE 1 in the title along with bullion coin. I will be specific about the 2021 date to expound on and clarify for the OP's question and confusion on the page.

This is how I think it should read, just like it is in USA Coin Book. They have already done their homework but I haven't taken the time to ask for the changes in Numista. I am a prolific collector of ASE's of both types. UNC, Proof, OGP, COA, etc. and this subject is of great interest to me.

2021 P Bullion (No mintmark)  495,000

2021 S Bullion (No mintmark)  1,000,000

2021 W Bullion (No mintmark) 11,811,000

2021 W Proof                                    416,047

2021 W Reverse Proof                   124,917

Have at it.

We can address the Type 2 page in another thread. That Numista page needs editing and clarity as well.

Are you suggesting that the current 2021 (no mint mark) year line be split into 3 no mint mark year lines?

Yes I am. These are the official numbers minted directly from the US mint and I think it will clarify some of the confusion. Especially about the mulitple W mint types released. 

Edit:

Take note please. As most of them from the multiple mint types were released to the public, it is difficult and even impossible to determine which exact mint type one has in their posession. Quite a few were released directly to the grading companies where they know for certain what mint those came from. Therefore you can find slabbed and graded “First release” or "First strike" slabbed and graded coins that will indicate clearly where that ASE came from even without the mintmark.  2021 S MS69 “First Strike”for instance. Then of course depending on which mint it came from and the numbers produced there directly affects the value for said example as some are more desireable than others.

I promised to keep it short. Sorry

The obvious question is how one would know which line to add their no mint mark coin to?  To me, those numbers belong in the comment section.

rsirian1

The obvious question is how one would know which line to add their no mint mark coin to?  To me, those numbers belong in the comment section.

Perhaps, but the breakdown should be on the page somewhere if not new line entries. Please read my edit.

 Edit:

I don't have a 2021 handy but here is a 2020 I have as an example. 2020 P (no mintmark)

If you would like to talk privately, I would be happy to do so but I am done on this thread. Thanks for listening.

Sorry one more edit. 

I want to point out that the slabbed 2021 W example you showed earlier is not actually graded. It is just a certification that it is a W mint “Gem Uncirculated”. That is not a actual grade but simply a marketing technique implying additional value.

I fully support adding the mintages you found in the comment section as well as deleting the erroneous year line. I will leave it to the OP to complete their post by requesting the year line deletion in the Numista coin catalog forum and submitting a CR to add the mintages to the comment section.

From NGC: Gem Uncirculated - an adjectival grade which NGC defines as being MS 65 or higher.

Done and done.   TC

rsirian1

 

 

From NGC: Gem Uncirculated - an adjectival grade which NGC defines as being MS 65 or higher.

That's funny. Which is why releasing them to the grading companies  slightly before available to the public is so controversial.  They can stick them in a slab with little scrutiny, little effort, no specific grade, imply something such as “FIRST!” and re release them as something special by the truckload for maximum profit exclusively for the large buyers. Why not specifically grade them? That takes time and money which undemines the motive in these cases and is indeed just clever marketing in the end. Ultimately consumers needlessly pay more. I will take a graded MS65 over a Implied grade of MS65 “or better” any day. 

harryg

rsirian1

 

 

From NGC: Gem Uncirculated - an adjectival grade which NGC defines as being MS 65 or higher.

That's funny. Which is why releasing them to the grading companies  slightly before available to the public is so controversial.  They can stick them in a slab with little scrutiny, little effort, no specific grade, imply something such as “FIRST!” and re release them as something special by the truckload for maximum profit exclusively for the large buyers. Why not specifically grade them? That takes time and money which undemines the motive in these cases and is indeed just clever marketing in the end. Ultimately consumers needlessly pay more. I will take a graded MS65 over a Implied grade of MS65 “or better” any day. 

I agree with you 100%.  It costs them little more than the cost of handling and the holder. If you look at the 2021 T-1 no mint mark, NGC graded 434,114 coins.  Only 1 was below 65 (at 64).  99.98% were either MS69 or MS70.

I own most of the entire series, but to focus on the navigation part first and the 2021 “richness” of recent history. When you type “American Silver Eagle” (ASE) quoted or without quotes: the plethora mess this query brings up is beyond reason. Not to insult our French, British and other peers - but this should go to one place and if it can't, at least be the top of the list. 

On the whole exchange here, we have a rich history not being reflected during the 2020-2021 pandemic that might be worth a sentence or two in the comments or description. The 2020-P (Philadelphia) was an emergency production as West Point (W) and San Francisco (S) could not meet demand. This was during the COVID-19 pandemic. Some argue that the mints have historically rotated mint locations in the years prior and the only way to know if you have a “P” is because the grading companies tracked it be serial number on the monster cases. Well yes, many people could have a P minted coin and not know it. I purchased the P graded so it is clear. It has now become a “thing” in the US where the label matters (regardless of what the purists say … buy the coin, not the slab). I think Americans do place a great deal more emphasis on grading than what some of our global colleagues might realize. Anyway, that is the essence of the argument we have on this side of the pond.

Also, I don't know if this is the case with our euro friends, but we had a major shortage of sliver planchets during these years. In 2021 the US mint released the Morgan and Peace dollars, traditional designs. Those sold out quickly and I had FOMO as did many collectors. I don't know if this shortage impacted the silver eagle - my 2024 Redbook doesn't have the ASE mintage counts. As for the 2021 Type 1 and Type 2, this is a major change in the design of the reverse of this coin. It is not even pictured in the comments and I don't know why. Type 1 is my favorite (the original similar to the back of the Kennedy half), but Type 2 has slowly grown on me the more I look at it.
 

kculp

kculp

I own most of the entire series, but to focus on the navigation part first and the 2021 “richness” of recent history. When you type “American Silver Eagle” (ASE) quoted or without quotes: the plethora mess this query brings up is beyond reason. 
 

 

Absolutely agree. I am going to slowly start requesting changes with the help of a fellow member in an attempt to clarify and provide important information that should be on the page but taking care to be as concice as possible so that the commment section and the page does not look like the rambling mess that it has become at this point. Not sure what the Numista gods will allow me to do but I think the result should be an improvement over what it looks like now.

kculp

. . . When you type “American Silver Eagle” (ASE) quoted or without quotes: the plethora mess this query brings up is beyond reason. Not to insult our French, British and other peers - but this should go to one place and if it can't, at least be the top of the list. 
 

If you don't use any filters when searching the Numista catalog, then the website is behaving as expected.  There are tons of coins/medals that have an eagle on it.

Try this instead:  https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=united-states&r=american+silver+eagle+bullion&st=147&cat=y&im1=&im2=&ru=&ie=&ca=3&no=&v=1&a=2021&dg=&i=&b=&m=&f=&t=&t2=&w=&mt=&u=&g=&se=&c=&wi=&sw=

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/themes/us-coins.php

TonyCoins

kculp

. . . When you type “American Silver Eagle” (ASE) quoted or without quotes: the plethora mess this query brings up is beyond reason. Not to insult our French, British and other peers - but this should go to one place and if it can't, at least be the top of the list. 
 

If you don't use any filters when searching the Numista catalog, then the website is behaving as expected.  There are tons of coins/medals that have an eagle on it.

 

Try this instead:  https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=united-states&r=american+silver+eagle+bullion&st=147&cat=y&im1=&im2=&ru=&ie=&ca=3&no=&v=1&a=2021&dg=&i=&b=&m=&f=&t=&t2=&w=&mt=&u=&g=&se=&c=&wi=&sw=

I suppose, but the first word “American ” should  be a strong hit for the right country. 

kculp

 

I suppose, but the first word “American ” should  be a strong hit for the right country. 

It will be as soon as AI learns to read your mind.

kculp

I suppose, but the first word “American ” should  be a strong hit for the right country. 

If you want to hard code the results to return only American coins, you can easily do that by:  (1) setting the issuer to “United States” or (2) using the method which rsirian1 suggested:  searching directly from the dedicated U.S. coins page.

With the default settings (all catalogs enabled) and ALL Issuers selected, the search engine intentionally casts a "wide net" in order to help newbies who (for example) try searching for what they think is a coin, but it's actually a medal.  This is actually a good thing because it (hopefully) helps those who are less experienced in the coin industry to identify their coins/medals/etc with a wider result set.   However, this sometimes upsets the more experienced coin collectors because they don't like seeing the additional results that are returned with the default settings.  But there's good news!  This is very easily remedied by toggling on/off some of the filters at the top and maybe adding 1 or 2 additional filters: the issuer and a year.  It takes just a few seconds.

fjjohnson makes a good point that there is no perfect software solution that's going to please everyone.