How much time is too much time.

Hello friends

I am the last person who would ever complain about approval delays, but a wait of several months feels a bit excessive, especially when some of them are complete and  include references from catalogues.

I understand that there may be a shortage of refereees, but since I notice some coins being approved within minutes, it might be helpful if referees from other countries could occasionally review submissions from general issuers.

Such long waits may end up discouraging users submitting new entries.

Do these issuers have a referee, if yes have you contacted them already. If no, are they quite obscure objects with little documentation?

Referee is not active for month +, his rights were removed, master referees will review requests

Idolenz

Do these issuers have a referee, if yes have you contacted them already. If no, are they quite obscure objects with little documentation?

No I have not contacted, nor do I intend to, I do not care about the delay, but some users might , so I made a suggestion to improve Numista.

I will say is not obscure if a source is being provided.

If there is no referent for these objects in his collection, the delay is even longer

ArsenEverlast

Referee is not active for month +, his rights were removed, master referees will review requests

I believe there is no regular process for this? At least there are multiple referees who do absolutely nothing for multiple months already. So even if there is a process, it's not working (that's why I assume there is none)

But why is there none? In my head, there should be some notification to admins when a request is untouched for x months. Then the referee gets contacted and when nothing happens after x days, rights get removed and someone new can apply for the position.

Especially because Numista has this problem since forever. I basically had to beg to admins to remove a referee who wasn't even online for over half a year to be removed in the past. They didn't even notice. Back then and, as it seems, still today.

I was under the impression that after a certain amount of time the request becomes visible to one of the master referees who either contacts the referee or processes the request themselves.  Maybe this is not formalized or maybe I just dreamed it.

Edit: I did not dream it.  Under referee duties is this:

Verify requests for adding new items or edits to existing pages. The contributors generally expect their requests to be verified within a week. During the first two weeks, a pending submission is only visible to the referee. After two weeks, the request becomes visible to the master referees, who can also verify it.

Also this:

The catalogue admins will consider suspending an inactive referee in the following situations:

   If more than one month has passed since the last access to Numista
   If pending requests are more than one month old and no requests have been processed within the past two weeks

rsirian1

I was under the impression that after a certain amount of time the request becomes visible to one of the master referees who either contacts the referee or processes the request themselves.  Maybe this is not formalized or maybe I just dreamed it.

 

Edit: I did not dream it.  Under referee duties is this:

Verify requests for adding new items or edits to existing pages. The contributors generally expect their requests to be verified within a week. During the first two weeks, a pending submission is only visible to the referee. After two weeks, the request becomes visible to the master referees, who can also verify it.

 

Also this:

The catalogue admins will consider suspending an inactive referee in the following situations:

   If more than one month has passed since the last access to Numista
   If pending requests are more than one month old and no requests have been processed within the past two weeks

Yes, after 1 month, master referees usually process these requests. But I for example, texted them and implicitly asked them to not process my requests. Because that way, there never arises a problem with any referee. Also because the master referees don't notify any admin that they process all the requests of certain referees all the time. They could be dead for years, and nothing happens, because their requests get processed.

Sadly that didn't help at all, because they still stay referees even when nothing gets processed. But as I interpreted @ArsenEverlast private message to me, at least now it got noticed a bit and a few referees will be removed in the next few days (hopefully)?

Removing inactive referees will not solve entirely the problem, the issue is that we (master referees/admins) do not have competencies in many areas and while in some areas you we can follow common sense, it doesn't work for Islamic coins, where we do not know the language (s), so cannot confirm submitted coin belongs to certain ruler and to be honest quality of those coins are so sh*tty, so I hate check those requests. Also there are issues with validating ancient China requests for the same reason + so many fakes and maybe some other place I just don't know.

ArsenEverlast

Removing inactive referees will not solve entirely the problem, the issue is that we (master referees/admins) do not have competencies in many areas and while in some areas you we can follow common sense, it doesn't work for Islamic coins, where we do not know the language (s), so cannot confirm submitted coin belongs to certain ruler and to be honest quality of those coins are so sh*tty, so I hate check those requests. Also there are issues with validating ancient China requests for the same reason + so many fakes and maybe some other place I just don't know.

Well, but I bet there are less people stepping up to become a referee for an issuer when they see there already is a referee (even if that one doesn't do anything).

8 most inactive referees were freed from their duties yesterday

ArsenEverlast

8 most inactive referees were freed from their duties yesterday

Maybe it´s time to repost the list of countries lacking (active) referees … or specific sections where a lot of demands don´t get processed from. 

From my perspective, we need people for sections Mongol States, Islamic states, Roman Provinces and modern Canada.

Should i expect to wait a month for Numista email replies too? I'm not trying to rush anything, just want to know what i should expect. I am patient 🙏

NN.Ben

Should i expect to wait a month for Numista email replies too? I'm not trying to rush anything, just want to know what i should expect. I am patient 🙏

In my experience e-mails are returned within a week or not at all. But most issue should be addressed through review/appeal or in forum discussions.

My email about moving all my coins to another account. I read in another post that i needed to email a certain someone. I understand that they would be busy though, I don't mind the wait. 

Its only been a few days though, so i just gotta keep waiting 😁

I've too have experienced some delays with processing new submissions, in fact I have one item currently awaiting a Referee's approval …

However, finding the relevant Referee so that you can send them a message isn't always as easy as it first appears.  Maybe it's worth suggesting  that ‘Pending’ should come with the name of the Referee the item has been referred to.  This function could also then automatically add the Master Referee's name when it's copied over after 14 days.

LDC63

I've too have experienced some delays with processing new submissions, in fact I have one item currently awaiting a Referee's approval …

However, finding the relevant Referee so that you can send them a message isn't always as easy as it first appears.  Maybe it's worth suggesting  that ‘Pending’ should come with the name of the Referee the item has been referred to.  This function could also then automatically add the Master Referee's name when it's copied over after 14 days.

Why do you think the referee will process it faster when you text them? Is your plan to annoy them so much that they want to get rid of it (and you)?

My first post I had coins waiting for more than three months, I think 15 days is not even a delay.

In my view  one month is acceptable. After that, other referees should verify the situation.

The vast majority of Referees respond within a very short period of time, more often than not within a few days of receiving notification that there is an item awaiting approval.  In my experience, it is unusual to to wait more than two weeks for an item to be approved.  That is a clear reflection of the hard work and dedication of all of out Referees.  I fully appreciate that people take holidays and may sometime not really want to put in the enormous effort that some of the more unusual items require before approval.  So, my very last thought would be to harass someone who is donating their time to help manage this website, and actually, I find that statement quite offensive given the huge amount of time I myself have contributed to this website.

Let me be clear, I very much value and appreciate the work that our wonderful Referees do for us all on Numista.  I've said this on many occasions and on multiple posts.  Their hard work and dedication is, after all, why we have such a fantastic website that is such an incredible resource to both established collectors and beginners alike.  But, there is a void of information (under the vague automatic heading ‘Pending’) when you submit an item for approval, during which time the submitter has no idea if an item is currently being reviewed by a Referee, which Referee is reviewing the item, if the Referee is awaiting additional information, or whether anyone has even seen the item that you've submitted.  I don't believe for one second that our Referees are so fragile that they can't confirm, in some cases after 3 or 4 months, that they've even looked at a submission.  Note, the item I submitted a couple of weeks back (as referenced above), already has a similar item in the catalogue, so should be relatively easy to confirm.

After all, occasionally people have been known to just give up:  

ArsenEverlast

8 most inactive referees were freed from their duties yesterday

Just to confirm, I certainly do not believe in harassing Referees who are providing a voluntary service to fellow collectors.  But, asking after a few weeks if someone has or has not received a notification, is absolutely not harassment.   After all, as one of the previous contributors noted, it can sometimes be months ‘Pending’. 

The item has now been confirmed:

Thanks

LDC63

But, there is a void of information (under the vague automatic heading ‘Pending’) when you submit an item for approval, during which time the submitter has no idea if an item is currently being reviewed by a Referee, which Referee is reviewing the item, if the Referee is awaiting additional information, or whether anyone has even seen the item that you've submitted.  I don't believe for one second that our Referees are so fragile that they can't confirm, in some cases after 3 or 4 months, that they've even looked at a submission.  Note, the item I submitted a couple of weeks back (as referenced above), already has a similar item in the catalogue, so should be relatively easy to confirm.

 

[…]

 

But, asking after a few weeks if someone has or has not received a notification, is absolutely not harassment.

I think there is some confusion about how the requests are processed. The normal process of a creation or modification request is:

1. When the contributor send a request, it has “Pending” status.
2. The referee has a list with the pending requests in their scope.
   The referee does not receive a notification with new pending requests, but the system display a red number in the menu with the quantity of pending request. The contributor does not need notify to the referee anything.
3. The referee can
   1. Approve or cancel the request.
   2. If more information is needed, the request is send to the contributor with “Modifications requested” or “Question asked” status, and the request go to another list in the referee side (processed requests).
4. If the contributor does not reply within the next two weeks, the request disappears from the list of the referee (they can not see it).
5. When the contributor reply, the status of the request is “Pending” and go to the step 2.

This topic comes up quite frequently on Numista, and I'd like to offer my opinion (both as a referee and as a contributor). 

Obviously, I've been on both sides, and I think it's fair to say that there are many types of requests: some are very easy to approve (minor changes, typography, new images or data, etc.), while others are truly complex (ancient coins, coins in languages ​​we don't usually work with, coins with little information in catalogs, etc.), so approval times can't be the same in both cases.

That said, it's also true that many users, seeing their proposals take "an eternity," can become discouraged, and in this case, we could lose a potentially valuable contributor (or future referee) for Numista. 

The fact that referees are volunteers is no reason why we shouldn't be "evaluated", and if someone does a job that isn't up to standard, we should be able to comment on it without hesitation so we can try to find a solution.

We all contribute to Numista, but the website and the quality of its content should be our main focus.