Sending a package to Germany. Is there any import taxes to be paid by the receiv

As per the above title. Value will be around £20.00

Thanks for your help

Yes, when sending items from the UK in to the European Union, the recipient will have to pay taxes.

For Germany, when the value is below 150 EUR, it is 19% VAT “only”. If it is above 150 EUR, additional customs fees will be charged.

The “value” to calculate the 19% on, is the declared value of the item + postage paid, converted into EUR.

Any taxes below 1 EUR will not be collected.

In therory there is a threshold of 45 EUR for gifts. On the website of German customs they clearly state though that exchanges between collectors are not considered as gift but as commercial transactions. You may try, but the recipient might need to have a good story….

The taxes are collected by the postman upon delivery. For this “service” Deutsche Post charges a fee of 6 EUR.

So your item worth 20 GBP, sent for lets say 5 GBP postage will end at: 25 GBP x 1,15 x 19% + 6 EUR = 11,46 EUR costs for the recipient, paid cash at the door.

BR

They also don't carry change (or they claim to) so you have to have the fee as exact as possible or lose the over charge 😒

Or don't pay at the door and let it be send to the costumes office if it would be cheaper in travel time and cost for you.

In fact, once it is at your door, you cannot have it forwarded to the customs office. You either accept it or have it returned to sender.

What you can do in general to save those 6 EUR is enlist with Deutsche Post as “self declare”, which means that every item subject to customs is sent to the customs office, you are notified and have to collect it and discuss about tax there. Saves the 6 EUR, but involves travel costs and time. There are not many customs offices, the next one might be quite far away.

This is only worthwhile if you receive a certain number of such items per day. If it is only once in a while or even one item a day, it is “cheaper” to pay those 6 EUR. 

Then don't open the door, mine always got send to the costums office (which for me is only 15 minutes bike ride away) when I wasn't home.

If you are not at home, the item is sent to the local post office, like all other registered items. Upon pick up the 6 EUR need to be paid to Deutsche Post anyway, in such case at the counter. But maybe it is different at your place. For the majority of people it might be difficult though to travel 50 km or more to the next customs office, only because they were not at home during the day.

COINMAN1

As per the above title. Value will be around £20.00

Thanks for your help

No mention of how many coins are being sent and how much they weigh [rhetorical question].

The postal service and the customs service distinguish between ordinary letters that contains documents and letters that contains goods.

Logistics goes like this:

A. Letters with documents are normally sent in an ordinary paper envelope, are flat and can be sorted by a machine.

B. Letters with goods are normally sent in padded envelopes that are bulky and must be sorted by hand.

If your coins (or whatever collectables you're sending) can be contained by logistical solution A, nobody will move a muscle if you do not declare the content of the letter (and it's obvious to the eye that the envelope is flat like a pancake and the content doesn't “rattle”). Logistical solution B needs a customs declaration CN22 attached.

I am hoping that the exchange I have started will go ahead knowing the answer to my question, but am only sending banknotes, which will obviously make weight less

Is life in Germany really that complicated?😁

I dont‘t think life in Germany is more complicated than in most countries. Such rules on customs exist in almost every country, currently the US as best example. 

If It is only banknotes to be sent, send them in a plain envelope and indeed no one will care about customs. 

Just to throw my 2cents into the pot about a few of the comments;

1. goods aren’t allowed to be sent in normal letters in Germany, because they break the machines that sort them. Likewise if you send something in a normal letter that are goods and it is insured that will be void. However sending from abroad that has different rules means the DP are not liable for compensation, so they can’t refuse to reimburse the country of origin if they pay out for lost or damaged items.

2. the postmen and women are not required to carry any cash for change, if they have any it is their personal money. recipients can ask that the post be sent to local DP shop where change will be available.

3. Historical money (Coins and notes) are not subject to mehrwertsteuer (VAT). The recipient should challenge any VAT charged by customs or the DP (yes in receipt years employees of the DP have been examining and applying the charges, on request and with authority of customs), they often do this incorrectly. For current circulation cash, the only rule is the declaration of 10.000€ and above.

So for sending coins and notes to Germany;

Notes are technically documents, you can write this on your customs form with „historical or collectible“, these will travel with normal post, be covered by insurance and customs will not look at them, as long as it isn’t breaking law in point 3.

Coins are goods and are not wanted to travel via normal sorting method, point 1, but if you pack them securely, flat between card, they will have no problem getting sorted by machine, as long as they are in an envelope under 1cm thick (doesn’t matter if it is normal envelope or padded), the thing to remember is if doesn’t pass smoothly through your hands and isn‘t rigid enough to not bend easily, it will get torn apart by the machines. As for the customs declaration „collectible gift“, a swap is a gift, there is no invoice or gain, there is no need for customs to get involved. Check with your local post office rules for insurance, goods may not be covered on normal post, this is your choice and risk if they do not arrive.

I don't mean to start a discussion about evident facts, but

- there are no restrictions about sending goods in letters domestically within the country. And that's the same sorting machines as for international mail. Of course you should always take care about carefully packing your items, loose coins in an envelope is never a good idea. So this has nothing to do with sorting machines, sorry to say.

- Historical money is indeed subject to VAT, with certain exceptions like some gold coins. Even current money can be subject to VAT if it is assumed that it is traded for above face value. That is why you pay VAT if you order Euro coins directly from Vatican or San Marino (=outside European Union), even though technically it is money you could use at the next local shop. You can of course challenge and discuss with the customs authorities why your specific case is special and should not be taxed, if you want.

- Banknotes are considered as goods if they are traded above face value. They are either commercial goods or means of payment, but never considered as documents.

- swaps are explicitly considered as commercial transactions, as stated by German Customs Authorities on their website. You give value to receive value, so this is no gift. 

But of course, as with every law, rule or regulation, there are ways to disguise and cheat the system if you want to try, as described in the previous post. 

Bavariat

I don't mean to start a discussion about evident facts, but

 

- there are no restrictions about sending goods in letters domestically within the country. And that's the same sorting machines as for international mail. Of course you should always take care about carefully packing your items, loose coins in an envelope is never a good idea. So this has nothing to do with sorting machines, sorry to say.

We are talking about international letter post; AGB 1 (1) 1. „only documentation and written communication is allowed“, I can send you the AGB if you wish. Cash (coins and notes) is also forbidden, for letter post nationally within Germany as per the Postgesetz and AGB 2 (2) 6. Plus items which will cause damage to „property“ (this can apply to sorting machines, property of the DP) AGB 2 (2) 3. 

This last one is not overly explicit, (and I am not going to send you my cv) but I know (fact) that DP were getting fed up of spending millions on machines, only for them to be broken by small items being ripped out of envelopes when passing through the machines. So yes it has everything to do with the sorting machines, that is why they introduced Büch u. Warenpost some years ago, which got changed to just Warenpost a few years ago.

- Historical money is indeed subject to VAT, with certain exceptions like some gold coins. Even current money can be subject to VAT if it is assumed that it is traded for above face value. That is why you pay VAT if you order Euro coins directly from Vatican or San Marino (=outside European Union), even though technically it is money you could use at the next local shop. You can of course challenge and discuss with the customs authorities why your specific case is special and should not be taxed, if you want.

Sorry I remembered wrongly from Differnzbesteuerung (especially the buying and selling of antiques (old money) from private individuals) before selling and being liable for VAT just on the difference. Plus Kleinunternehmerregelung, where small businesses can opt out of adding VAT but are not entitled to claim back VAT on business purchases. Please not this is just my remembering of the situation, I am not a small business owner or do I deal in the sale of coins and notes.

 

- Banknotes are considered as goods if they are traded above face value. They are either commercial goods or means of payment, but never considered as documents.

 

- swaps are explicitly considered as commercial transactions, as stated by German Customs Authorities on their website. You give value to receive value, so this is no gift. 

 

But of course, as with every law, rule or regulation, there are ways to disguise and cheat the system if you want to try, as described in the previous post. 

Yes all my suggestions were to bypass the rules to getting charged something by customs with post from outside the EU, because members swapping coins and banknotes for collection purposes should not be subject to such charges, whatever way customs want to interpret and rob from the recipient (this is my personal opinion). My Interpretation of like for like collectable is an exchange of gifts for individual collectors, not a commercial transaction from a business to a buyer, and I am waiting for my day in court about this exact thing. Plus when customs add taxes to an item of post, they cannot prove that the said item is from a transaction, hence the word „gift“. Also note I am not talking about purchases just swaps.

ahkai

Is life in Germany really that complicated?😁

As you most likely understand by now - German bureaucracy can be very anal.

Bavariat

- there are no restrictions about sending goods in letters domestically within the country. And that's the same sorting machines as for international mail. Of course you should always take care about carefully packing your items, loose coins in an envelope is never a good idea. So this has nothing to do with sorting machines, sorry to say.

Well, yes there are restrictions, but perhaps you as a German are so used to them that you don't notice.

There are four different formats for domestic letters in Germany, only Standardbrief gets into a post box. In other countries there is only one format for letters. At international exchange, letters are in many cases pre-sorted by the two definitions of A) ordinary letters and B) bulky letters. The custom workers, which in many cases are postal workers working as subcontractors, receive A and B already sorted.

King

Bavariat

I don't mean to start a discussion about evident facts, but

 

- there are no restrictions about sending goods in letters domestically within the country. And that's the same sorting machines as for international mail. Of course you should always take care about carefully packing your items, loose coins in an envelope is never a good idea. So this has nothing to do with sorting machines, sorry to say.

We are talking about international letter post; AGB 1 (1) 1. „only documentation and written communication is allowed“, I can send you the AGB if you wish. Cash (coins and notes) is also forbidden, for letter post nationally within Germany as per the Postgesetz and AGB 2 (2) 6. Plus items which will cause damage to „property“ (this can apply to sorting machines, property of the DP) AGB 2 (2) 3. 

 

This last one is not overly explicit, (and I am not going to send you my cv) but I know (fact) that DP were getting fed up of spending millions on machines, only for them to be broken by small items being ripped out of envelopes when passing through the machines. So yes it has everything to do with the sorting machines, that is why they introduced Büch u. Warenpost some years ago, which got changed to just Warenpost a few years ago.

 

- Historical money is indeed subject to VAT, with certain exceptions like some gold coins. Even current money can be subject to VAT if it is assumed that it is traded for above face value. That is why you pay VAT if you order Euro coins directly from Vatican or San Marino (=outside European Union), even though technically it is money you could use at the next local shop. You can of course challenge and discuss with the customs authorities why your specific case is special and should not be taxed, if you want.

Sorry I remembered wrongly from Differnzbesteuerung (especially the buying and selling of antiques (old money) from private individuals) before selling and being liable for VAT just on the difference. Plus Kleinunternehmerregelung, where small businesses can opt out of adding VAT but are not entitled to claim back VAT on business purchases. Please not this is just my remembering of the situation, I am not a small business owner or do I deal in the sale of coins and notes.

 

 

- Banknotes are considered as goods if they are traded above face value. They are either commercial goods or means of payment, but never considered as documents.

 

- swaps are explicitly considered as commercial transactions, as stated by German Customs Authorities on their website. You give value to receive value, so this is no gift. 

 

But of course, as with every law, rule or regulation, there are ways to disguise and cheat the system if you want to try, as described in the previous post. 

Yes all my suggestions were to bypass the rules to getting charged something by customs with post from outside the EU, because members swapping coins and banknotes for collection purposes should not be subject to such charges, whatever way customs want to interpret and rob from the recipient (this is my personal opinion). My Interpretation of like for like collectable is an exchange of gifts for individual collectors, not a commercial transaction from a business to a buyer, and I am waiting for my day in court about this exact thing. Plus when customs add taxes to an item of post, they cannot prove that the said item is from a transaction, hence the word „gift“. Also note I am not talking about purchases just swaps.

Fine for me… 😉

pecunianonolet

Bavariat

- there are no restrictions about sending goods in letters domestically within the country. And that's the same sorting machines as for international mail. Of course you should always take care about carefully packing your items, loose coins in an envelope is never a good idea. So this has nothing to do with sorting machines, sorry to say.

Well, yes there are restrictions, but perhaps you as a German are so used to them that you don't notice.

There are four different formats for domestic letters in Germany, only Standardbrief gets into a post box. In other countries there is only one format for letters. At international exchange, letters are in many cases pre-sorted by the two definitions of A) ordinary letters and B) bulky letters. The custom workers, which in many cases are postal workers working as subcontractors, receive A and B already sorted.

also here all fine for me. I will not discuss this topic any further, simple waste of time….

Bavariat

also here all fine for me. I will not discuss this topic any further, simple waste of time….

No problem. 🙂

Just a comment to explain that in Germany, when conducting any business, you have to pay taxes beginning at the first euro cent.

In other EU countries there's an annual threshold of exemption before taxes have to be paid when you're a private individual.

Ergo, there is a higher risk of the customs service in Germany arguing that you're conducting business even at small amounts.

pecunianonolet

ahkai

Is life in Germany really that complicated?😁

As you most likely understand by now - German bureaucracy can be very anal.

Absolutley, as an Australian travelling recently through Germany the hoops you have to jump through and forms to be filled in at Hotel receptions can be mind boggling.

Mike

brismike

pecunianonolet

ahkai

Is life in Germany really that complicated?😁

As you most likely understand by now - German bureaucracy can be very anal.

Absolutley, as an Australian travelling recently through Germany the hoops you have to jump through and forms to be filled in at Hotel receptions can be mind boggling.

 

Mike

And then there are differences between the bundesländer (federal “states”), where in general things become less bureaucratic the more to the north of Germany you go. It also helps if you have full command of the German language.