I have this coin in my collection since 1977. CHILE 1760 So 8 Reales
1979 I submitted the coin for verification to a leading expert.
He said the coin was "struck" but that there were no coins of that date and Mint
and he assayed the coin at 0.865....therefore it was fake.
I discontinued the search.
Recently I had the coin assayed by X-ray fluorescence...0.91641...just about perfect match...0.917
Although now listed in catalog's...I cannot find a photo....Can anyone help.
I am old and want to resolve this problem soon.
It states that it's rare so that's probably the reason why there's not many pictures around. According to that page a 1768A copy in VF/XF sold for $27,500!!
So if yours is genuine then it's a really nice coin to have
Even if it is not in the best condition, a coin like this should be send for grading to NGC or PCGS. Like this you could be sure if your coin is real or not, if it is you have a nice rarity and encased buyers would know that it is not fake. At the same time you protect it from potential environmental damage.
Paul
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Thank you Neilithic and Kommodore for your comments.
I have seen similar coins which at first glance look so good...better than 70%.
I looked at a lot of 8 Reales...I think became pretty good at spotting fakes.
This coin I feel about 95%
But when the expert all those years ago said Silver was 0.865...I gave up.
The Spanish were very careful about their silver content.
When I gave it one more shot a few months ago...had it assayed and came up with 0.917.
I better do some more work.
Would like to make it 3 KNOWN in catalogs....where are the Photos of the 2 known ???
Give me something to compare.
I dont think you will find any pictures as it seems to be a very rare coin, at least by NGC the 1760 to 1767 have never been graded, again I strongly recommend having graded by one of the professional grading companies. All I can say is that at a good auction house a graded coin should be at least worth 3000USD.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
Thanks again to everyone for the comments.
I have found pictures of 1758...1764...1767...1768.......where is the 1760 ??
It's in catalog's since the 1980's....
someone has seen and verified the coin for the inclusion in the catalogs.
There surely would have been only 1 set of dies.
I will eventually submit for verification...PCGS, NGC, ICG, or ANACS
As I am based in Australia, don't have much knowledge of these people.
Also, I don't actively collect any more. Getting a bit too ancient.
Thanks for that information Zegeri...I will take a look at the pages you suggest.
As you say...they list 2 known.
How did they find those 2 coins and where are the pictures which they must have taken.
Someone must know where those coins are....they must have some facts...before listing in the catalogs.
I did send photos to Numista when I made the first inquiry a few days ago
Happy to upload them again if needed.
I traveled in Asia for business Seventies and Eighties....of course combined business with pleasure.
Hunted coins....found a lot of interesting stuff...and learned a lot about fake Dos Mundos.
1977 this coin came to me...everyone knew it was rare...but not cataloged anywhere.
I sent it to Spain in 1979...the leading expert there said it was a "struck" coin...but 1760 So was not listed anywhere in the Spanish records...and it was 0.865 silver...therefore fake.
The 0.865 really stopped me following up on the coin...even though I felt it was genuine.
Increasing age and poor health has forced me to dispose of most of my collection...I had a lot of fun collecting it ...time to move on.
The 1760 came out of the vault...I wanted to check again...first stop X-ray X-ray fluorescence.
It came back as 0.91641....very close to the Spanish 0.917 ( and not 0.865 given by the expert )
I have written to various Numismatic companies in the USA...never get a reply.
Contacted CoinQuest...they replied ( THANK YOU ) and put me onto Numista.
So...I am still looking for information and Pic's of the 2 coins listed in the catalogs.
Hopefully they will help decide if worthwhile to go to NGC or similar.
Hi, here you have a photo from an original coin. I can see that are different dies, very very rare looking the mintage, just 8810, and 3 known (4 if yours is original). I think your coin is not original, there are some diferences in the letters (assayer J and 8), and the pillars (specially the left one), but I´ll send your images to an expert in this.
Chris ( Quod )
Thank you for the information....I did not expect to hear again on this forum... a few years have passed.
It may be a fake...but...
when I found this coin 1977...it was not listed in any catalog...why would they fake an unlisted coin.
I first sent it to London to have verified....they sent it to Spain.
The people in Spain said it was 0.865 Silver...and there were NO " S "coins of that date,
so I accepted it was fake...stopped
A few years back I again had it tested ...now 0.91641...so I think again...maybe genuine.
I wanted to continue checking...but no time and some illness....so here I am again..still trying to find a way.
The question in my mind always....it is a "struck" coin...not molded...why make just one coin.
Even some small variation in the dies...can happen...one set of dies will not produce all the coins they needed.
I will try to attach better photos
Best regards...and Thank you for the interest. Eris
I'm kinda sceptical of this. you should have a XRF alloy composition breakdown. Could you post it here?
And what did the lab say about the alloy versus the standard alloys for that period?
1760 So-J does exist. The thing that worries me most about this one is the 6. There's some other red flags too though. If I had to bet, it's a counterfeit.
Don't bother with slabbing it in my opinion. Send it to either Stack Bowers Ponterio or Goldberg; both have handled several and probably know the exact xrf compo too. (They were all struck from the same shipment of silver) - They will also be happy to do it for free and perhaps even sell it free for you if it's genuine.
"All Santiago pillar dollars are rare. Gilboy lists examples for 1751, 1753-58, 1760, 1763-65 and 1767-70 with the years 1758 and 1768 being the least rare. Tho the Ponterio catalog does not so state, we consider it probable that it is the same specimen as that offered previously by Goldberg." http://www.coinfactswiki.com/wiki/Chile_1755-So_J_8_reales
That looks pretty decent though perhaps a little too perfect. I'm pretty unsure about the purity of Spanish copper alloys in that period.
Yes they do exist to reply to your pm. Gilboy is an author of many books, and he wrote that
Nobody here is going to be able to give you any more of a definitive answer on this. We don't have the coin in hand, and although there are some very cool and knowledgeable people here, we probably don't have the experience to answer this even if we did have the coin in hand. I'll put it this way; I suspect it may be fake, but I'd still pay upwards of $100 on it and gamble. This is not clear cut at all
For the same reason I would not go to a TPG. For all intents and purposes they have seen maybe one or two of these in their history, and they make authenticity mistakes on coins far more common than this one.
You should not stress about this; it's a no loss situation. Call Goldberg or SBP and they will organise everything for you. I'm satisfied that it's probably close enough to the real thing that they will want to appraise it in person, so should organise a collection.
Thanks so much for this thread, this is the best way for me to learn, these are the types of coins I am so interested in, and I enjoyed reading through every bit of this.
Sorry it's a fake, glad you got your 30 year worry finished!
Do you want to sell it? I'll mark fake on it and keep it as a reference to help me spot other fakes.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Quote: "erose"An update on my 1760 Chile 8 Reales.
I sent to Larry Goldberg and he arranged for it to be checked. FAKE
Very disappointing but problem solved at last.
Thank you to all the people who sent comments
Quote: "erose"An update on my 1760 Chile 8 Reales.
I sent to Larry Goldberg and he arranged for it to be checked. FAKE
Very disappointing but problem solved at last.
Thank you to all the people who sent comments
What era was it made in? Any other info?!
yea, we shouldn’t rule it out until we look at the trace elements!
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Quote: "erose"An update on my 1760 Chile 8 Reales.
I sent to Larry Goldberg and he arranged for it to be checked. FAKE
Very disappointing but problem solved at last.
Thank you to all the people who sent comments
What era was it made in? Any other info?!
yea, we shouldn’t rule it out until we look at the trace elements!
The analysis of elements is a few posts above. There isn't Au or Pb, it's pure Ag and Cu. Until the end of the 19th century, silver coins had a characteristic gold impurity, more in European coins than in American ones.
Referee for Spain, Iberia (ancient), Suebi Kingdom and Visigothic Kingdom
