MPCC V: Presenting the Fifth Edition of the Web's Best Coin Contest!!

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dptashny

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Posted: 30 Tem 2015, 15:43 #

Welcome to MPCC V - the fifth edition of the web's most popular coin contest!!

This contest is introducing a lot of new things, so read the rules carefully!

NOTE: The details of the French translation for MPCC V are still being worked out.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 30 Tem 2015, 15:44 #

SUBMISSION GUIDELINES

1: Every member who has been a member for at least 30 days and has at least 30 forum posts can enter up to one coin in each of the following categories (however, in order to submit a coin into Europe, you have to submit a coin in at least four other categories):

A: Europe
B: Asia
C. Africa
D: Middle East
E. US, Canada, and Atlantic Islands
F. Latin America
G. Australia and Pacific Islands
H. Exonumia

2. In order to submit your coin(s), you will have to have a high quality cropped and rotated photograph, or a scan, of your coin. Cropping can be done using Photoscape, Gimp or a similar program. There must be separate obverse and reverse pictures, each with a white (not transparent) background. The pictures must have the same length and width and must be at least 400X400 PX. PM me your picture(s).

3: In order to be in the contest, you must submit your coins by January 15th, 2016. The contest will begin February 15th, 2016.

4: The photos and the coins must be yours and cannot be copied from other websites.

5. You may change the coin you entered at any time before the contest begins.

6. You cannot submit a coin you submitted in previous MPCCs, a coin submitted by anybody in MPCC III or IV, and a category winner from any MPCC.

7: You must also submit a picture of your coin(s) next to a handwritten note with your username to prove that you own them.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 30 Tem 2015, 15:44 #

THE CONTEST

1: The coins will be voted on in sub-rounds (on both the French and English forum), similar to the previous four MPCCs.

2: Voting is quite simple, every member gets one vote for every sub-round. You may vote for (or against) your own coin.

3: I (or one of my assistants) will count up the votes. The winning coin stays in the contest and the losing coin is eliminated.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 30 Tem 2015, 15:46 #

CATEGORY DEFINITIONS

A: Europe - all countries on the European continent except Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan and Armenia (Asia), and Turkey/ Ottoman Empire (Middle East) and including Russia and Greenland
B: Asia - Central, Southern, and Northern, Eastern, and Southeastern Asia except Russia (Europe), Afghanistan and Iran (Middle East)
C. Africa - Western, Eastern, Southern, and Central Africa
D: Middle East - Arabic-speaking countries, Israel, Turkey, Afghanistan and Iran
E. US, Canada, and Atlantic Islands - United States, Canada, Caribbean islands (including Cuba), and British Overseas Territories in the Atlantic (including British Antarctic Territory)
F. Latin America - All non-island countries south of the US-Mexico border (including Mexico)
G. Australia and Pacific Islands - Australia, New Zealand, and small Pacific islands (except Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines)
H. Exonumia - all tokens, medals, and other coin-like objects (except patterns, which are considered "coins" and put into the category their issuing country is in)

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 30 Tem 2015, 15:48 #

THE PRIZES

ULTIMATE PRIZE

Mexico - 100 Pesos (1986 Soccer World Cup) donated by DonChori
Still in capsule

Europe

Austria - 10 Schilling donated by dptashny

Middle East

Egypt - 50 Qirsha (President Nasser) donated by dptashny

Latin America

Mexico - 1 Peso (Morelos) donated by dptashny
Spectacular toning

Australia and Pacific Islands

New Zealand - 1 Florin - George V donated by neilithic

Exonumia

Germany - 12th Place Biking Medal donated by dptashny
Fun fact - this medal participated in MPCC I - as a French medal!

**Please contact me if you would like to donate a prize from a category without a prize. Thanks!**

eitan190

Closed account

Posted: 30 Tem 2015, 16:49 #

Hi,
can you accept semi cropped pictures? Last MPCC apuking accepted them, since I was not able to do it. Can you do it too?
Thanks.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 30 Tem 2015, 16:50 #

What do you mean by semi cropped? Could I please see a picture? Thanks!

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 30 Tem 2015, 21:26 #

Too soon, you're going to get voter apathy if you trot out a new competition that's likely to last 20+ weeks just 2 months after the other one has been completed. Once a year is enough to keep us interested. Leave it until next year

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 30 Tem 2015, 21:55 #

Now that I think about it, I agree with you..

Dates amended!

nthn

Joined: 2 Mart 2015
Posts: 1895

Posted: 1 Ağu 2015, 01:57 #

I can crop a coin so that the background is white outside the coin. So it is cropped round not square. You can PM me. I only take about a minute. You send me the picture, I will send it back cropped.

pnightingale

Joined: 27 Tem 2011
Posts: 5383

Posted: 1 Ağu 2015, 04:05 #

I thought Apuking was running the contest now?

I haven't entered one since the very first but I've checked in now and then to see how things were progressing. If he's now out of the picture I think he deserves a huge thank you from everyone for his energetic intervention to save the contest from extinction and for the magnificent prizes he has donated.

It's good to see others such as Neil donating prizes too. It can't be overstated how much community minded people such as this add to out tiny corner of the WWW.

Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!

eitan190

Closed account

Posted: 1 Ağu 2015, 08:59 #

Quote: nthnI can crop a coin so that the background is white outside the coin. So it is cropped round not square. You can PM me. I only take about a minute. You send me the picture, I will send it back cropped.

Really? thanks!

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 2 Ağu 2015, 03:15 #

Apuking ran MPCC one time, when I was unable to access the Numista website for almost a year. Now, I can access Numista just fine and it's even not slow anymore - so I am running the contest again. Also, Apuking probably won't be able to continue translating.

And yes, I intend to thank him in a very interesting way...

apuking Catalogue referee

Joined: 31 Ekim 2012
Posts: 9391

Posted: 2 Ağu 2015, 05:40 #

Haha, what does that mean in a very interesting way.

Thank you everyone, it was fun running the last MPCC but with my current life outside of Numista it will be difficult for me to continue with MPCC. Im sure Dptashny will be running things well and that there will be a good replacement found also for the french side.
My referee work will continue the same, but it will still be difficult for me to make any big changes other than doing verifications and smaller improvements at the moment.

If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 2 Ağu 2015, 07:28 #

Quote: dptashnyApuking ran MPCC one time, when I was unable to access the Numista website for almost a year. Now, I can access Numista just fine and it's even not slow anymore - so I am running the contest again.

What do you mean when you weren't able to access Numista? As I remember you made a big song and dance about leaving because a couple of swaps went wrong, then you made another big song and dance about coming back, saying you were going to monitor the forums before you made your decision about coming back or not.

I prefer quality over quantity. Apuking may have only run one competition, but it was far and away the best of the 4. New rounds were up every weekend on the dot, we didn't have any issues with miscounts, and like previous years he's donated awesome prizes and then refused to keep them when his coin won the competition yet again.

eitan190

Closed account

Posted: 2 Ağu 2015, 09:22 #

Quote: neilithic
Quote: dptashnyApuking ran MPCC one time, when I was unable to access the Numista website for almost a year. Now, I can access Numista just fine and it's even not slow anymore - so I am running the contest again.
What do you mean when you weren't able to access Numista? As I remember you made a big song and dance about leaving because a couple of swaps went wrong, then you made another big song and dance about coming back, saying you were going to monitor the forums before you made your decision about coming back or not.

I prefer quality over quantity. Apuking may have only run one competition, but it was far and away the best of the 4. New rounds were up every weekend on the dot, we didn't have any issues with miscounts, and like previous years he's donated awesome prizes and then refused to keep them when his coin won the competition yet again.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 2 Ağu 2015, 14:06 #

Niel, I don't remember if you read the forum when I came back, but I was planning to continue the MPCC contest. First, I kind of "left" when I got mad about some swaps and the declining quality of the of the forums. When the Numista website started working for me again (right after Xavier came back for a little while - surprise!) I wanted to see how the forum was doing - I didn't want to come back to Numista I left!

I'm sorry about the quality of the contests - I hope MPCC V will be the best of the five contests. I'll have at least one, if not two, backups this time, so there shouldn't be an issue with not having rounds in time. And of course with prizes - I will also refuse prizes this time, and I hope my assistants will as well (but I'm not forcing them). I intend to donate two or three, but they obviously won't be as nice as Apuking's prizes (we can both agree that Apuking's collection and his prizes are far more valuable than ours!

)

And of course remeber that I have a life outside of Numista and even coins (shock and horror!).

Paul, you'll see what I mean, but don't get your hopes up!

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 3 Ağu 2015, 00:32 #

First two prizes posted.

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 3 Ağu 2015, 10:42 #

I can do the pacific/oceania category again. I've got some spare shillings and florins so I guess I can part with this one

dptashny

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Posted: 3 Ağu 2015, 14:00 #

Thanks Neil!

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 3 Ağu 2015, 23:34 #

Latin America prize posted.

Could a moderator please sticky this thread?

Ducatx

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 3809

Posted: 5 Ağu 2015, 14:52 #

Quote: dptashnyC. Africa - Western, Eastern, Southern, and Central Africa
D: Middle East - Arabic-speaking countries, Israel, Turkey, Afghanistan and Iran

Are North African Arabic countries (Tunisia, Morocco) included in the "Middle East " category ?

"Celui qui combat des monstres doit prendre garde à ne pas devenir monstre lui-même. Si tu contemples longtemps un abîme, l’abîme aussi regarde en toi." N.

Ex-référent/modérateur/administrateur à la retraite

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 5 Ağu 2015, 15:05 #

Yes - they are not in "Western, Eastern, Southern, and Central Africa and they speak Arabic. I am using cultural definitions not geographical ones.

Ducatx

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 3809

Posted: 5 Ağu 2015, 19:02 #

Thanks, just to be sure.

"Celui qui combat des monstres doit prendre garde à ne pas devenir monstre lui-même. Si tu contemples longtemps un abîme, l’abîme aussi regarde en toi." N.

Ex-référent/modérateur/administrateur à la retraite

SRoweCollection

Joined: 8 Tem 2015
Posts: 343

Posted: 7 Ağu 2015, 14:01 #

What would the maldives be considered as? Are micronations exonumia?

Cheers,

"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed"
-Jack Churchill, on his assault of a Nazi german camp riding a motorcycle with his bow and arrows, scottish claymore and bagpipes

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 7 Ağu 2015, 14:11 #

The Maldives have circulating coins, it's certainly not exonumia. I would say Asia since it's in the Indian Ocean pretty close to India and Sri Lanka

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 7 Ağu 2015, 14:20 #

Yup, I would say Asia as well.

SRoweCollection

Joined: 8 Tem 2015
Posts: 343

Posted: 7 Ağu 2015, 16:16 #

I never said the Maldives were exonumia, note the two separate phrases and questions.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 7 Ağu 2015, 17:57 #

Micronations (Hutt River, Sealand, ect) are Exonumia, but microstates (Vatican, Monaco, Singapore, ect) are not

mattressesaregood

Joined: 10 Nis 2015
Posts: 156

Posted: 7 Ağu 2015, 20:40 #

What about French cities?

eitan190

Closed account

Posted: 7 Ağu 2015, 23:18 #

Quote: mattressesaregoodWhat about French cities?

europe, probably.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 7 Ağu 2015, 23:22 #

Exonumia, they are a classic example of tokens.

eitan190

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Posted: 8 Ağu 2015, 10:14 #

What about circulating german notgeld? These should not be exonumia, since they were circulating.

MihajloNesic

Joined: 2 Tem 2015
Posts: 317

Posted: 8 Ağu 2015, 11:42 #

Don't have 30 forum posts, but trying to achieve that by 15th December. Sounds like interesting contest

https://mnesiccoins.gitlab.io/ https://www.instagram.com/mnesiccoins/

Ducatx

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 3809

Posted: 8 Ağu 2015, 12:36 #

Quote: dptashnyExonumia, they are a classic example of tokens.

...Some of them were circulating...

"Celui qui combat des monstres doit prendre garde à ne pas devenir monstre lui-même. Si tu contemples longtemps un abîme, l’abîme aussi regarde en toi." N.

Ex-référent/modérateur/administrateur à la retraite

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 8 Ağu 2015, 14:16 #

Every single New Zealand and Australian trader token, UK conder token and Canadian Bank token circulated. It doesn't make them official currency though. Unless it's minted by an official organisation, it's a token.

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 8 Ağu 2015, 14:36 #

anybody, really anybody else than dptashny should organise and be in charge of the contest.....

Why??

he once left in the middle of the contest leaving the remaining participants and contest in the air.
he didnt check the submissions correctly because he just didnt care.
peculiar vote counting "mistakes" when not his favourite coin was leading.
Other normal submissions got lost. Besides of mine, i know of other members which very promising coins strangely never showed up during the competition.
a downloaded image from the internets won the last contest under his supervision!!!
there was never an excuse for that fiasco and disgrace for snubing the competitors.

A mistake here and there can happen, nobody is perfect. But after all that what happend numista should really reconsider to whom it hands over responsibilities.

Main Referee for Hutt-River

Mark240590

Closed account

Posted: 8 Ağu 2015, 21:42 #

To be fair.. It's not a Numista competition as such. They've adopted it. It was Dan who came up with it and pushed for a new section to be added.

pnightingale

Joined: 27 Tem 2011
Posts: 5383

Posted: 8 Ağu 2015, 23:07 #

Quote: Muenzenhamsteranybody, really anybody else than dptashny should organise and be in charge of the contest.....

Be careful what you wish for my fine hamster friend, there are far worse candidates than dptashny.

Clearly there are some trust and credibility issues which need to be addressed, preferably before the contest gets underway. It won't be much of a contest if many of the members refuse to enter because of concerns like this.

I should state that I've sat out of the previous contests because of website performance issues not because of any lack of trust in the impartiality of the organizers. However I've been made aware of the issues by others. I'd like to participate again now that the slow page loads have improved somewhat but clearly there needs to be a recognition of the problems and some solutions put forward.

I wouldn't like to see it in other hands because it's Daniel's project and he does have a lot of energy and organizational ability. Perhaps it's time to hand over the reins to a committee rather than a single person? I would be very comfortable in nominating Neil for a role, he has supported the contest every year and is one of the most respected Numista members. Of course I have no idea if his personal schedule would allow it so I offer the suggestion merely as an example of the type of "elder statesmen" person who needs to be included. I'm sure we could come up with a half dozen names to make this into a very prestigious and eagerly awaited annual event.

Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 8 Ağu 2015, 23:21 #

I'm fine with Dptashny running it, as long as we don't have repeats of the issues of previous years where some rounds were up for over 3 weeks and others just a couple of days. Also the issues with incorrect counts. Apuking's system of having a new round going up every weekend worked well.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 03:21 #

I agree that some very valid concerns have been raised. I am only a person (not the God of Coin Contests) and I admit I've made some (big) mistakes. I've also apologized for my mistakes on a number of occasions, and I will try my best not to make these same mistakes again. Having at least one assistant should help with that!

@Muenzenhamster: Your fourth and fifth concerns are not valid ones. All the coins that were submitted to me that followed the rules were put into the contest, and the stolen images technically followed the rules. I'm sorry but how do you know you would have caught it? And, I challenge you to run your own coin popularity contest. Perhaps you will count cynical comments as votes.

pnightingale

Joined: 27 Tem 2011
Posts: 5383

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 06:19 #

For what it's worth, in my far from humble opinion, events such as this make Numista a much better place. I'd rather have it than not and I really do appreciate the time and effort which goes into it.

However it does seem an awful lot of work for any one person, or even two. Mistakes become inevitable then. Donald Trump doesn't run the Miss World contest in person, he delegates!

Let's at least agree that the lapses in judgment have been apologized for and that the errors or omissions were due to a lack of time and nothing more sinister and move on. Concentrate on making this year a success instead of worrying about the year before last.

So Dan, what do you feel you need from the rest of us to help you make the 2016 event the best yet?

Please don't misunderstand my intentions, I'm not trying to make a hostile takeover and 'm far too idle to take on such a huge responsibility. I'm simply wondering if there is anything I or anyone else can do to help out in the background.

Does anyone else have any positive thoughts? Maybe someone with some imaging skills to detect fraudulent entries (Fluke?) or perhaps a few volunteers to make the photo edits for those who lack the skills, poll watchers who will keep a score of the votes for each round...... anything which can broaden the workload and increase the quality and scope of the entries will result in a better experience for everyone.

Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!

derf

Joined: 11 Mart 2012
Posts: 1750

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 06:54 #

Quote: pnightingaleDoes anyone else have any positive thoughts?

Yes ...

1. Any posting to the voting thread that contains anything other than #1 or #2 should not be allowed. The post should be deleted and the vote not counted ...

2. There should be an absolute cutoff time for voting. Something like: Sunday 18:00 (UTC-5)

? Format Format Format ?  ?
Do not argue with ignorant people .. !! They will drag you down to their level, then pulverize you with experience ...

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 09:12 #

Quote: pnightingaleHowever it does seem an awful lot of work for any one person, or even two. Mistakes become inevitable then. Donald Trump doesn't run the Miss World contest in person, he delegates!

Yes, but I'm sure he would never delegate out the important job of making sure the contestants' bikinis are done up properly.

Perhaps we could get the people donating prizes being in charge of running that section, to take a bit of the workload. Then Dptashny being in charge of collating the category winners and running the finals. We could designate a day, say Saturday, and everyone make sure their round is out on that day. I'm happy to take care of the Pacific/Oceania category if everyone is agreeable with this system.

canadianjoe

Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 35

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 10:52 #

Hi everyone

I have been a member on numista for awhile now and have always wanted to take part in one of the mpcc's. I would just like to ask a couple of questions. Are the dates still valid, entries by dec 2015 and contest starts jan 2016 or are they changed, and the other is, is there a post where i can see all the non valid coins due to previous entries to this contest. I dont have an enormous collection and hope I can still enter some coins that have not already been previous winners.

Hats off to all that organize these events on this site like others have said it really makes this a fun and fantastic site.

bam777

Joined: 5 Ağu 2011
Posts: 4414

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 11:44 #

I think that the contest is too long. 20+ weeks...it stretches on and on.

I think we should look into coding it into a poll...so that the count is done automatically.

@josephjk

Joined: 26 Tem 2011
Posts: 1319

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 13:19 #

Quote: bam777I think that the contest is too long. 20+ weeks...it stretches on and on.

I think we should look into coding it into a poll...so that the count is done automatically.

+1
With all coins from each continent going in at once for a vote, instead of a 1:1 piecemeal format which takes too long.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 13:22 #

I have at least one person who will help me with counting the votes, although as Ben said a poll feature would be really nice (I've been wanting one for a long time. In terms of detecting fake images, I've definitley learned from last time and that's why I introduced the "30/30" rule. Of course that is not everything and I am using the Google "Search by image" tool for every picture.

@canadianjoe: The dates are still valid but no I'm not going to post the non valid coins. All you need to do is follow the simple rules posted here and you'll be fine.

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 15:27 #

yes a poll is way better
new modus with qualification rounds, the best 4 go up to next round to "single quarter finals". like in soccer....
a third pic is needed for submitting a coin to jury. it must contain the coin with handwritten nickname on piece of paper.
lifetimeban from mpcc and public shameing for convicted cheaters.
a recognition award for very exotic submissions, mvp

Main Referee for Hutt-River

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 15:33 #

I'm not sure I understand the "new modus with qualification rounds", please explain.

A lifetime ban and public shaming for cheaters is fine, that's the unofficial policy in place already.

A third picture is also a great idea I'll add that to the rules.

An award for exotic submissions? Not likely. It's the most popular not the most exotic coin that wins. Of course the most popular coins are often exotic.

nthn

Joined: 2 Mart 2015
Posts: 1895

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 15:34 #

Quote: pnightingaleor perhaps a few volunteers to make the photo edits for those who lack the skills...

I can crop around the coin so that background is white for any coin. Maybe it wouldn't work so much on irregular coins like ancient Roman coins, but I will do my best.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 15:36 #

Quote: @josephjk
Quote: bam777I think that the contest is too long. 20+ weeks...it stretches on and on.

I think we should look into coding it into a poll...so that the count is done automatically.
+1
With all coins from each continent going in at once for a vote, instead of a 1:1 piecemeal format which takes too long.

A poll is a great idea but having all the coins from one category together? That eliminates all the fun in the contest!

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 15:37 #

Quote: nthn
Quote: pnightingaleor perhaps a few volunteers to make the photo edits for those who lack the skills...
I can crop around the coin so that background is white for any coin. Maybe it wouldn't work so much on irregular coins like ancient Roman coins, but I will do my best.

Thanks! Obviously Roman coins and the like don't need to be perfectly cropped.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 15:40 #

And a final comment to Neil - if the poll feature comes out in the near future, making the rounds will be easy. That's one thing I don't need help for.

@josephjk

Joined: 26 Tem 2011
Posts: 1319

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 15:50 #

Quote: dptashny
Quote: @josephjk
Quote: bam777I think that the contest is too long. 20+ weeks...it stretches on and on.

I think we should look into coding it into a poll...so that the count is done automatically.
+1
With all coins from each continent going in at once for a vote, instead of a 1:1 piecemeal format which takes too long.
A poll is a great idea but having all the coins from one category together? That eliminates all the fun in the contest!

It would take away the possibility of the competition organizer positioning their personal entries or ones from their friends against weaker entries on purpose, to advance in the prelim rounds....

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 16:01 #

That's a big accusation you are implying, Joseph. In previous MPCCs, the order was decided nearly randomly - I used keywords for each coin and the order was alphabetical.

I can give you a number of links in which one of my coins was put against a very valuable and beautiful coin and lost as a result. And then saying I rigged the contest for my friends as well? Let's not even go there...

I'm done sitting here and defending myself, I have a contest to run!

@josephjk

Joined: 26 Tem 2011
Posts: 1319

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 16:05 #

If you read my post more carefully... it was not personal... I was talking about eliminating the possibility... you seem to take it personally.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 16:09 #

I'm sorry I took your post so personally but it's still not happening. As I mentioned it takes away from the fun of the contest

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 20:22 #

at the start all participants of each region are together. the users pick their favourite 20 coins from each region. the others are eliminated.

the whole poll voting is of course anonymously.

the 20 best are then presented without ranks and you are allowed to vote again until the best 3 are found. again without the actual ranking provided.

the best 3 from each region compete than against each other.

so virtually there is still a chance for every finalist to win the whole contest without any prejustice.

Main Referee for Hutt-River

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 20:36 #

I'm sorry this really defeats the purpose of the contest. That is one change I am not going to make.

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 21:27 #

I dislike the idea of a poll...we only get 25 or so votes per round, and since they are mostly the same people that enter coins, will not everyone just vote for their own coins and we'll end up with a stalemate?

I'm happy with the length, it was too long when we allowed 2 coins per person, but with one coin per person it is a tolerable level.

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 21:51 #

eurovisionsongcontest works like that.

the current system is just boring, and after the first round i can tell who will be the winner. any change would be good.

stalemates will never happen, too many socketpuppetaccounts are involved ;)

Main Referee for Hutt-River

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 21:57 #

i explain again.

every user chooses 20 coins out of the bunch from each topic. these are given 1-20 points individually.

all userspoints are calculated together and you have your 3 finalists.

But their rank is only revealed after the big finale where all finalist participate.

Main Referee for Hutt-River

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 22:09 #

Quote: "neilithic"I dislike the idea of a poll...we only get 25 or so votes per round, and since they are mostly the same people that enter coins, will not everyone just vote for their own coins and we'll end up with a stalemate?

I'm happy with the length, it was too long when we allowed 2 coins per person, but with one coin per person it is a tolerable level.

I agree with you 100%. I understand what Muenzenhamster is saying, but it is a drastic change, too confusing and a lot less fun.

pnightingale

Joined: 27 Tem 2011
Posts: 5383

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 22:33 #

Quote Muenzenhamster

stalemates will never happen, too many socketpuppetaccounts are involved ;)

Is this just speculation or is there any evidence of this?

It never occurred to me that anyone would stoop so low as to cheat in a free coin contest. If this really has happened I think the "Public name & shame" rule applies.

Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 22:50 #

Quote: "pnightingale"
Quote Muenzenhamster

stalemates will never happen, too many socketpuppetaccounts are involved ;)

Is this just speculation or is there any evidence of this?

It never occurred to me that anyone would stoop so low as to cheat in a free coin contest. If this really has happened I think the "Public name & shame" rule applies.

of course it was a joke. i did a blinking eye smilie to make sure.
but would anyone think off some competitors getting so low and submitting pictures out google image search?!?!!

Main Referee for Hutt-River

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 9 Ağu 2015, 22:56 #

I still think that takes the fun out of the competition. That way the competition is over in 2 weeks, I week for the poll and then one week for the finals.

Perhaps having a pool system would be an idea. Have 4 pools for each section and divide the coins evenly amongst them so smaller sections like the Pacific/Oceania, Africa and Asia might only have 3 or 4 coins per pool, the largest, Europe might have 6 or 7 per pool.

One week for each pool then the winners from each pool go into the section final, then the winners of the section finals goes into the grand final....total 6 weeks.

That way also eliminates the problem of having some sections finishing well before the others.

mattressesaregood

Joined: 10 Nis 2015
Posts: 156

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 02:18 #

I think only one coin should compete against another at the same time, otherwise multiple coins automatically have a smaller chance of winning... and you can win by getting 26% of the votes.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 02:32 #

I think we should keep the old system - I really don't want to change the contest to drastically.

mattressesaregood

Joined: 10 Nis 2015
Posts: 156

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 02:46 #

Quote: "dptashny"I think we should keep the old system - I really don't want to change the contest to drastically.

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 02:52 #

I said before that I'm happy with the length of the competition, I was just offering an alternative suggestion to reduce it because a couple of people were saying it's too long.

I thought the pool system would be a happy medium between the current format which goes for 20+ weeks and the poll system proposed by Bam and Muenzenhamster which would only go for 2.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 02:56 #

I don't like the idea of a pool system and it doesn't help much except with making the contest shorter.

I think some people are forgetting that the voting part should be fun, not just something to get over with. The poll feature would help make the contest shorter without changing the contest drastically and it will preserve the fun.

mattressesaregood

Joined: 10 Nis 2015
Posts: 156

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 03:03 #

I like the length of the contest. With a poll you only see the winner and you can't think "My coin didn't win, but I made it this far". Also there is no possibility for upsets/people changing opinions because you only vote twice at most.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 03:07 #

If the numbers are public it would be fine.

And of course it would still be a forum topic, so people can comment, discuss the coins, and request to change their votes.

mattressesaregood

Joined: 10 Nis 2015
Posts: 156

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 03:17 #

By "changing opinions" I meant people can vote for one coin and have it win but see it against a better coin the next round and vote against it. With a poll this can't happen.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 03:21 #

I think you are confusing a poll and a pool.

I am against the idea of having a pool, and so are you.

I am in favor of having a poll option on forum posts to make counting the votes easier and not subject to mistakes.

mattressesaregood

Joined: 10 Nis 2015
Posts: 156

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 03:34 #

Oh, the poll being just a vote-counting technique. I thought the poll included a pool for each category. For counting votes, the poll is fine.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 03:40 #

At least I know someone agrees with me!

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 03:46 #

the european song contest voting system is very exciting and should be considered adapted.

at the moment there are often constellations like "manchester united vs gloucester pub drunkyards" or "ferrari fxx vs. reliant regal".

boring.

Main Referee for Hutt-River

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 03:50 #

Quote Muenzenhamster
the european song contest voting system is very exciting and should be considered adapted.

at the moment there are often constellations like "manchester united vs gloucester pub drunkyards" or "ferrari fxx vs. reliant regal".

boring.

Yes, but there are times when the Gloucester Pub Drunkards beat Manchester United. You just need to look at the Mexican coin that took out the grand prize this year.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 03:52 #

That's what makes the contest interesting!!

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 13:22 #

fact:
most people find the current system boring and painfully drawn out.
organisor is not willing to overthink the system.

Why not let the community decide???via poll

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dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 13:40 #

I may consider Neil's idea but yours is an extreme overhaul. Also, please remember that now each user can submit only one coin per category and I placed an additional restriction on submitting to Europe, meaning the categories will be more or less even and there will be less coins overall.

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 14:03 #

Main Referee for Hutt-River

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 14:09 #

whats wrong here:

Ultimate Finals 4 with about 500 active users in both forums.
13 votes in the english forum and 7 votes in the french forum.
So 4% participated in the ultimate finals.
Average participaction at the beginning of the 4th contest 9%.

If you dont see the problem i cant help it.

Main Referee for Hutt-River

Muenzenhamster

Joined: 30 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1175

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 14:13 #

besides of the anyway low participation-percentage.

in other words, over 50% of all active participants got fed up!

Main Referee for Hutt-River

pnightingale

Joined: 27 Tem 2011
Posts: 5383

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 15:22 #

May I suggest that we go ahead with the framework approved by Dan and Neil for the 2016 contest and see how the reduced entries impact voting?

If it doesn't bring participation up where it needs to be the let's take a look at some of the well thought out proposals offered by Mr Hamster.

I'm a great believer in minimalism, don't keep fixing things until they break.... take the smallest step possible to cure the problem and add to it in small increments.

When I lived on my own you would have sworn that my house was occupied by a Japanese Samurai. I had a bed which I rarely slept in, a small TV, one table and two chairs, one for sitting and one for eating and a bookcase. One clock and a single oil painting that I've owned for years and all the walls painted white. My wife on the other hand..... our front room alone has 3 couches, 1 recliner, a rocking chair and 7, yes SEVEN tables. I hate it.

It's a philosophy I've followed all my life with great success and one of the reasons I look 25 years younger than I am.

So in the interests of harmony, the well being of your spirit and your future love life, let's not take any drastic steps until the current possibilities have been explored.

Wax on.... wax off..... you may proceed Daniel San.

Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!

jmaranhao

Joined: 19 May 2015
Posts: 57

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 15:26 #

Coollll!!!!!

I´ll do 30 post reply to enjoy the contest!!!

Let´s start!!!

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 15:48 #

Phil, what you are saying is very wise. The current framework is great and it worked four times already - if it's not broken, why fix it?

I don't usually listen to hamsters coming up with ideas to tranform MPCC from a fun, drawn out discussion into a boring prize litter box.

But, I think we should put this one to the vote. Let the people decide!

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 21:33 #

Sounds good to me. Let's test Hamster's theory that "fact: most people find the current system boring and painfully drawn out."

Start a new thread with 3 options:

Keep the competition the way it is (20 weeks)
Have a pool system (6-8 weeks)
Have a poll system (2 weeks)

Personally I would find it sad if it was the final option. It seems to be the sign of the times that the youth don't have the attention span to enjoy things for more than 5 seconds. It's why we've seen the rise of the awful T20 cricket competition rather than the glorious 5 day test matches

pnightingale

Joined: 27 Tem 2011
Posts: 5383

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 22:13 #

Quote: "neilithic"
It's why we've seen the rise of the awful T20 cricket competition rather than the glorious 5 day test matches

By that single line alone you have won my vote.

Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 22:27 #

Neil, could you please find another name for the last option? I don't want people to confuse it wit h the idea of a poll feature on the Numista forum.

nalaberong

Joined: 1 Ekim 2013
Posts: 1425

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 22:46 #

I have but one gripe...

Quote**Please contact me if you would like to donate a prize from a category without a prize and not marked "Reserved"**

Where is the logic in preventing multiple people from donating prizes through this reservation system? Surely we want more, not less?

And yes, I'll put something up as a prize for this contest.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 10 Ağu 2015, 23:23 #

I reserved categories because I had coins I wanted to donate but I didn't buy them yet or I didn't scan them yet. I took away the reservation on US, Canada, and Atlantic Islands but not the one on Europe because I already bought the coin.

Please donate a prize, I would really appreciate it!

neilithic

Closed account

Posted: 11 Ağu 2015, 01:33 #

Alright guys, you can vote on the forum format on this thread here https://en.numista.com/forum/topic42478.html

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 11 Ağu 2015, 01:39 #

Thanks for starting the thread, Neil!

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 14 Ağu 2015, 18:25 #

Prize posted for Europe. I am still looking for someone to donate prizes from B (Asia), C (Africa), and E (US, Canada, and Atlantic Islands) - thanks!!

chomp-master

Joined: 10 Mart 2015
Posts: 5744

Posted: 14 Ağu 2015, 22:41 #

I think I'll participate for my 1st MPCC contest, as just arrived late for MPCC IV.

Just a few questions:
-what about mint-encapsulated coins or coins from a coin set?
-what about error coins?

Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.

dptashny

Closed account

Posted: 14 Ağu 2015, 22:42 #

All coins can participate why not?

chomp-master

Joined: 10 Mart 2015
Posts: 5744

Posted: 14 Ağu 2015, 22:51 #

I'm more thinking about these error coins as thinking about my Middle east selection, hesitating between 2 coins including one error coin. This concerns more the way to represent it as its error is due to an angle between normal coin alignment and mine.

Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.

chomp-master

Joined: 10 Mart 2015
Posts: 5744

Posted: 16 Ağu 2015, 16:03 #

Quote: "dptashny"CATEGORY DEFINITIONS

A: Europe - all countries on the European continent except Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan (Asia), and Turkey/ Ottoman Empire (Middle East) and including Russia and Greenland
B: Asia - Central, Southern, and Northern, Eastern, and Southeastern Asia except Russia (Europe), Afghanistan and Iran (Middle East)
C. Africa - Western, Eastern, Southern, and Central Africa
D: Middle East - Arabic-speaking countries, Israel, Turkey, Afghanistan and Iran
E. US, Canada, and Atlantic Islands - United States, Canada, Caribbean islands (including Cuba), and British Overseas Territories in the Atlantic (including British Antarctic Territory)
F. Latin America - All non-island countries south of the US-Mexico border (including Mexico)
G. Australia and Pacific Islands - Australia, New Zealand, and small Pacific islands (except Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines)
H. Exonumia - all tokens, medals, and other coin-like objects (except patterns, which are considered "coins" and put into the category their issuing country is in)

Iceland counts as Europe I think? Same with Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands, and Falkland Islands in US, Canada & Atlantic Islands? What about unclear territories as East Timor or Papua New Guinea?

Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.

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