Thank you
Adding a check-box "Unknown year" as a technical default entry at the very top of every coin type page [solved]
60 posts
This message aims at: suggesting an idea to improve Numista
[My collection] Ability to enter a coin in my collection without having to select a year/line
Status: ImplementedUpvotes: 49
Downvotes: 2
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I suggest adding a check-box "Unknown year" as a technical default entry at the very top of every coin type page already existing and implement it as a feature so that such a check-box is automatically added by default for other new coin type pages the moment they are cerated. What it gives us - sometimes a Collector gets a coin in a too poor condition to identify the year but the coin type can be correctly attributed. So in such cases it is impossible to enter such a coin to User's collection on Numista. But later on such a coin may be upgraded and then the correct year will be ticked. So this technical "Unknown year" will be used in such cases and no one will ever have to ask moderators to add one as I can see such "Unknown year" entries already for some coins.
Thank you
Thank you
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I can see the point and all but a coin which should have a date that you can't read is numismatically seen a worthless coin. For those we have this PAGE or put them in the year line with the highest mintage or the first and add a comment.
Yes, not the most practical solution but with this we don't polute the year lines any further ... we already have minute varieties that mostly concern only very specialized collectors and many people also aren't happy about proof issues on the same coin page etc. p p.
The most legitimacy for a special year entry have hammered coins were sometimes the date lies outside the coin even when the coin has otherwise a high grade.
Also on the same grounds you could ask for an additional line for every coin that has more than one mintmark.
Yes, not the most practical solution but with this we don't polute the year lines any further ... we already have minute varieties that mostly concern only very specialized collectors and many people also aren't happy about proof issues on the same coin page etc. p p.
The most legitimacy for a special year entry have hammered coins were sometimes the date lies outside the coin even when the coin has otherwise a high grade.
Also on the same grounds you could ask for an additional line for every coin that has more than one mintmark.
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Yes this would be boring indeed and by numismatically worthless I didn't mean that the coin has no value what so ever also missing or unreadable date or mintmark could also happen on a high grade coin.
But with modern coins were mintages are usually known a coin without year can't be fully described and could be anything from a rare keydate to tens of million mass ware.
It will always have the value that derives from its art, metal and history.
I just have a pet pieve with to many year lines that are not completely neccesary and don't wan't to add more on that pile
because I know the problem not so much with missing dates but pages full of variants that maybe collectors understand that specialize only on that particular coin.
Anyway happy collecting!
But with modern coins were mintages are usually known a coin without year can't be fully described and could be anything from a rare keydate to tens of million mass ware.
It will always have the value that derives from its art, metal and history.
I just have a pet pieve with to many year lines that are not completely neccesary and don't wan't to add more on that pile
because I know the problem not so much with missing dates but pages full of variants that maybe collectors understand that specialize only on that particular coin.Anyway happy collecting!
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Quote: "Essor Prof"I'm sorry but I don't like this idea at all. We have 78680 coin pages so we should add 78680 (minus coin pages with only 1 year line) year lines!!!!Hi, this is exactly what should be prevented from happening by the solution suggested:
A tick-box which would allow to mark the coin as date-less. The tick-box would make unnecessary the extra lines that appear on several coin-pages. It would be available for everyonewanting to use it and, what's best, without impact for those who don't have a use for it.
The reasons can be date (partially) off-flan, worn, damaged, clipped flan (highly collectable), ...
This one is also date-less, although it is neither worn nor struck off flan
Status changed to Accepted
(Xavier, 1 Nis 2020, 16:44)
Status changed to Started
(Xavier, 23 Tem 2021, 10:35)
Status changed to Implemented
(Xavier, 30 Tem 2021, 21:49)
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Hello,
It is now possible to register a coin or banknote in your collection without specifying a year.
It is now possible to register a coin or banknote in your collection without specifying a year.
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Is it possible to alter members coin collections from a certain year to this 'undetermined' state?
I have some year lines for 'unknown variety' that could get deleted if that's possible through the administration.
I have some year lines for 'unknown variety' that could get deleted if that's possible through the administration.
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Quote: "Idolenz"Is it possible to alter members coin collections from a certain year to this 'undetermined' state?It's now possible
I have some year lines for 'unknown variety' that could get deleted if that's possible through the administration.
By the way, I forgot to mention that the feature for undetermined year is not available for the old collection management system.
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Quote: "Xavier"What is the old collection management system? I tried to fix some old "possibly/probably not this year" coins I had, but couldn't find any new entry.
Quote: "Idolenz"Is it possible to alter members coin collections from a certain year to this 'undetermined' state?It's now possible
I have some year lines for 'unknown variety' that could get deleted if that's possible through the administration.
By the way, I forgot to mention that the feature for undetermined year is not available for the old collection management system.
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Quote: "January First-of-May"What is the old collection management system? I tried to fix some old "possibly/probably not this year" coins I had, but couldn't find any new entry.The one with the boxes, you can see it in Xaviers first post HERE.
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Quote: "Essor Prof"I'm sorry but I don't like this idea at all. We have 78680 coin pages so we should add 78680 (minus coin pages with only 1 year line) year lines!!!!Exactly my opinion.
I totally agree this is useful for ancient or medieval or hammered coins with dates (partially) out of flan but not for modern issues. I already saw some of these "unknown" year lines for coins only a few decades old. Identification is everything concerning coin collecting. Such modern coins that are so worn or damaged a proper identification isn't possible anymore are practically worthless. Coins without a proper identification don't come in my collection. But of course, this is only my personal opinion.
Idolenz
Catalogue referee
Joined: 13 Tem 2013
Posts: 9579
Posts: 9579
Posted: 20 Ağu 2021, 17:24
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Edited: 20 Ağu 2021, 17:25
Edited: 20 Ağu 2021, 17:25
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But this is only for individuals, you don't see it if you don't use it and no ref has to add a line manually.
So the ugly unknown variant line can go.
So the ugly unknown variant line can go.
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So don't try to make any statistics of the coins in the numista data base with such a system in place
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Like I said it is only visible for you if you use it an most people probably wont use it anyway because you have to click the year selector.
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Quote: "Idolenz"Not entirely true. If you select the "Add to my collection" icon on the year line then that's true but if you use the generic "Add to my collection" icon then Undermined is the default.
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Some trouble in paradise with coins with multiple year/type lines:
single entry OK:
all years/types OK:
only "undetermined" OK:
one regular line of many and "undetermined" NOT OK?
It seems that if an undetermined plus at least one more year are added into collection (but not all), the icon changes to "I own a coin of each strike of this type."
LP
single entry OK:
all years/types OK:
only "undetermined" OK:
one regular line of many and "undetermined" NOT OK?
It seems that if an undetermined plus at least one more year are added into collection (but not all), the icon changes to "I own a coin of each strike of this type."
LP
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Quote: "mikimaus"Some trouble in paradise with coins with multiple year/type lines:To carry it one step further, if you now add one 2004 proof it will go back to one check.
single entry OK:
all years/types OK:
only "undetermined" OK:
one regular line of many and "undetermined" NOT OK?
It seems that if an undetermined plus at least one more year are added into collection (but not all), the icon changes to "I own a coin of each strike of this type."
LP
Total number of lines for that coin is 2 (Undetermined doesn't count). So if you have an Undetermined and another line you have 2. Since 2=2 you have all and 2 checks. If you have an Undetermined and both other lines you have 3 . Since 3 doesn't equal 2, only one check.
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Disadvantage: a coin traded with an indefinite year does not run the risk of being traded if it is not a variety.
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Quote: "Pcoetzee5"Personally I do not think this idea was thought through properly.I agree completely with you
Not only do I need to add a piece of junk to my collection to be able to see that a type is complete (double tick), but there is no value add. If you have a modern coin in such a bad state that you can not read the date, and you wish to have it in your collection, the add a comment to the private comment field. Or even better, throw it away or melt it, and look for a better condition coin.
This addes a massive amount of extra work for moderators, not to mention administrators with no positive contribution.
Sorry to say, not worthwhile, and zero value add.
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Quote: "Pcoetzee5"Personally I do not think this idea was thought through properly.Hey,
Not only do I need to add a piece of junk to my collection to be able to see that a type is complete (double tick), but there is no value add. If you have a modern coin in such a bad state that you can not read the date, and you wish to have it in your collection, the add a comment to the private comment field. Or even better, throw it away or melt it, and look for a better condition coin.
This addes a massive amount of extra work for moderators, not to mention administrators with no positive contribution.
Sorry to say, not worthwhile, and zero value add.
I totally agree with this comment ! I hate this new feature it makes people just lazy looking for the right line when it's a bit more complex. I think the idea could have been nice but it has been implemented to quickly and without thinking about various consequences. I understand that sometimes the date or any other characteristic of a coin or banknote can not be identified properly but looking on various Numista pages now, you can definitely tell members are lazy looking for the right line ...
Please explain me how you can not identify properly a modern banknote or coin ... All you need to look on Canadian banknotes for example is signatures and prefixes ... I just feel like, I did (and others too) a lot of work creating and maintaining the pages updated and they aren't used as they should be ... It's not very motivating isn't it ?
Best regards,
Galor
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Quote: "Pcoetzee5"Personally I do not think this idea was thought through properly.That is actually not true. Just the opposite. Because of a bug in the system, if you have coins for all "year" lines (double tick) it will remain as double tick unless you add one Undetermined where it will now become just one tick.
Not only do I need to add a piece of junk to my collection to be able to see that a type is complete (double tick), but there is no value add.
Sorry to say, not worthwhile, and zero value add.
WAS (double tick):
NOW (single tick):
If you choose not to use the Undetermined line then this change is totally transparent to you. You will notice absolutely no change to how your collection is handled. It also has the added benefit that if you have a coin that has a "?" or "ND illegible" year line it can now be removed making your collection statistics more accurate.
Bottom line, if you don't use it you won't even know it exists.
mikimaus
Catalogue referee
Joined: 18 Ocak 2015
Posts: 1461
Posts: 1461
Posted: 10 Eyl 2021, 16:51
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Edited: 10 Eyl 2021, 16:55
Edited: 10 Eyl 2021, 16:55
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Quote: "galor"Hi
Quote: "Pcoetzee5"Personally I do not think this idea was thought through properly.Hey,
Not only do I need to add a piece of junk to my collection to be able to see that a type is complete (double tick), but there is no value add. If you have a modern coin in such a bad state that you can not read the date, and you wish to have it in your collection, the add a comment to the private comment field. Or even better, throw it away or melt it, and look for a better condition coin.
This addes a massive amount of extra work for moderators, not to mention administrators with no positive contribution.
Sorry to say, not worthwhile, and zero value add.
I totally agree with this comment ! I hate this new feature it makes people just lazy looking for the right line when it's a bit more complex. I think the idea could have been nice but it has been implemented to quickly and without thinking about various consequences. I understand that sometimes the date or any other characteristic of a coin or banknote can not be identified properly but looking on various Numista pages now, you can definitely tell members are lazy looking for the right line ...
Please explain me how you can not identify properly a modern banknote or coin ... All you need to look on Canadian banknotes for example is signatures and prefixes ... I just feel like, I did (and others too) a lot of work creating and maintaining the pages updated and they aren't used as they should be ... It's not very motivating isn't it ?
Best regards,
Galor
I have many German Notgeld coins and on many pages there are multiple line entries with somewhat good explanation or not even that. Some have just some code like 100.1, 100.2, 100.3 etc. I have also many coins with such entries, but since there are no explanatory pictures, based on your reply, I am suppose to add in the first line and leave myself a comment, that this coin does not exactly sit in here, and come back later to update it, in whatever century the data will be available? If you agree on members being lazy, then also referees are lazy by allowing such entries, which lack even basic data to differentiate coins in collection. Such entries are also BAD for database, since they give wrong basic data on users possession of certain mintage. Still in users collection, number should be included.
So, the Undetermined should stay, my position.
No hard feelings here
LP
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Quote: "mikimaus"Again I must agree but to a limited degree only. Why doesn't numista want the users to be responsible?
Quote: "galor"Hi
Quote: "Pcoetzee5"Personally I do not think this idea was thought through properly.Hey,
Not only do I need to add a piece of junk to my collection to be able to see that a type is complete (double tick), but there is no value add. If you have a modern coin in such a bad state that you can not read the date, and you wish to have it in your collection, the add a comment to the private comment field. Or even better, throw it away or melt it, and look for a better condition coin.
This addes a massive amount of extra work for moderators, not to mention administrators with no positive contribution.
Sorry to say, not worthwhile, and zero value add.
I totally agree with this comment ! I hate this new feature it makes people just lazy looking for the right line when it's a bit more complex. I think the idea could have been nice but it has been implemented to quickly and without thinking about various consequences. I understand that sometimes the date or any other characteristic of a coin or banknote can not be identified properly but looking on various Numista pages now, you can definitely tell members are lazy looking for the right line ...
Please explain me how you can not identify properly a modern banknote or coin ... All you need to look on Canadian banknotes for example is signatures and prefixes ... I just feel like, I did (and others too) a lot of work creating and maintaining the pages updated and they aren't used as they should be ... It's not very motivating isn't it ?
Best regards,
Galor
I have many German Notgeld coins and on many pages there are multiple line entries with somewhat good explanation or not even that. Some have just some code like 100.1, 100.2, 100.3 etc. I have also many coins with such entries, but since there are no explanatory pictures, based on your reply, I am suppose to add in the first line and leave myself a comment, that this coin does not exactly sit in here, and come back later to update it, in whatever century the data will be available? If you agree on members being lazy, then also referees are lazy by allowing such entries, which lack even basic data to differentiate coins in collection. Such entries are also BAD for database, since they give wrong basic data on users possession of certain mintage. Still in users collection, number should be included.
So, the Undetermined should stay, my position.
No hard feelings here
LP
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Quote: "Sjoelund"Again I must agree but to a limited degree only. Why doesn't numista want the users to be responsible?If only all the people would be as technical as we are, then we would have narrower window to study and enjoy in all our beautiful differences...
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Quote: "Essor Prof"I'm soooo happy I'm still using the old collection management system. No "undetermined year lines" for me.Also in the new system you don't get to see the "undetermined" year line unless you've added a coin in that line yourself (either in collection or for swap) ... so I'm just as happy as I have the possibility if ever need arises
Just call me Bram
No new swaps for the moment, still too many half-ongoing swaps to clean up!
No new swaps for the moment, still too many half-ongoing swaps to clean up!
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Quote: "Pcoetzee5"So how would you like to add an "undetermined" to your collection if you do not see the year line "undetermined"? Like you say, you do not see it in any of the tree listed coins, how would you like to add it?You use the "add to my collection" button, either the one above the yearlines (standard "undetermined" or next to one of the yearlines, where you can then in the top tab select the correct yearline, which includes all the regular ones on the page + "undetermined"
and once a coin is added as "undetermined", the extra yearline appears (as magic!
) Just call me Bram
No new swaps for the moment, still too many half-ongoing swaps to clean up!
No new swaps for the moment, still too many half-ongoing swaps to clean up!
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Chaka, thanks for the explanation. Appreciated.
It is like magic.
It is like magic.
Ex-South African now living in Germany
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