Irian Barat and Riau listings seem wrong

OK..so I am listing all of my coins from SE Asia. I find Irian Barat coins imbedded within Indonesion listings...reasonable considering this sites penchant for condensing listings...so I'm listing my Irian Barat coins, when I notice that a description of the edge says that if the edges are lettered then they are for RIAU. Shouldn't there be separate listings for the coins that are lettered and those that are not? Seems different enough to warrant its own listing...but have no clue who to tell...no ref..

They certainly deserve more than only a mentioning in the "edge" section. In my opinion Irian Barat (other name for West Irian) and Riau Archipelago even deserve their own entry (as they were territories with their own LEGAL TENDER coins).
But I know Numista is not keen for that. Or maybe one entry (Indonesian Provinces) is another possibility.
Anyway, if that's not possible, Irian Barat and Riau Archipelago are even two different territories so they should have at least their own listing within Indonesia (like West Irian has now ).

As there is not so much coins to list within Indonesia till now, a separate "currency" for local edge coinage sounds enough. However if there were more coins to add, and/or enough local edge varieties, maybe we can merge them in a separate Indonesian provinces listing.

Essor Prof, do you have other provincial listings to share us?

Irian Barat Rupiah and Riau Rupiah were each separate currencies from the Indonesian Rupiah with different values.

The Riau Rupiah was equal to the Malaya and North Borneo Dollar. The Irian Barat Rupiah was equal to the Dutch Guilder. Both were eventually replaced by the Indonesian Rupiah. For the Irian Barat Rupiah, the conversion rate was 18.9 Indonesian Rupiah.

I completely agree that they deserve their own status. We certainly should have a standard on this website a bit more scientific than leaving it alone because they didnt make so many coins. I completely agree with the Professor and J in this matter. It is ridiculous that one must be a genius at predicting absurdity to use this website. The country list should function as a table of contents of sorts. As Numista stands, a noobie would have to click on 404 country listings or do a search of some sort and hope the Numista god of luck is with them since the Numista god of logic hasnt been seen for awhile. That being said, a fickle Numista mistress is in improvement over no mistress. That being said, who can I contact to address this?

Everything required to justify a new country listing exists in this and at least one other thread on this topic. Can someone on the team create it?

Moved up.

I created new coin pages for the Riau edition: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces95951.html
For me they could be part of the Indonesia section just being a sub currency.

Sad. they deserve their own listing based on facts evident on this site. your opinion should not be the reason they are denied their correct status. they were not a sub Indonesian currency.

It should not be long and they could became subsection of Indonesia under new country system.

Considering the Riau Rupiah and the West Irian Rupiah were both distinct currencies different from the Indonesian Rupiah and that they circulated only in designated parts of Indonesia, the current situation with sub-listings in the Indonesian section does not look appropriate. I would suggest to make them 'second order countries' under a primary Indonesia header. This could also include Netherlands East Indies.

Quote: "Oklahoman"​Sad. they deserve their own listing based on facts evident on this site. your opinion should not be the reason they are denied their correct status. they were not a sub Indonesian currency.

​Hey, the important thing is that there are coin pages for the different coins, not only one page for Riau and Irian Jaya. I'm open to other opinions and if they are an own country, I'm ok with that... It was just a step in the right direction...

Better to list them somehow than do not list them at all.

As Jarcek said (which is exactly the same view as jokinen), they may become subsections. It's the same way as we had colonial coinages whose remnants still exist (British Overseas; New Caledonia & Polynesia; Netherlands Antilles, BES & Aruba), or actual separate currencies of Hong Kong and Macau which are now part of China.

Ever hopeful.

These will be third level country - which are not ready yet. And I do not know when will Xavier have time for this.

Jarcek, this is what the other thread was talking about. West Irian etc....

Quote: "Jarcek"​These will be third level country - which are not ready yet. And I do not know when will Xavier have time for this.

​Sadly, this is still true. With hope that it could be done in the month of Gaius Octavius.

Soo i did research. It is consistent with everything in this thread. I also discovered that Indonesia and the netherlands consider Indonesias independence to date from 1945 and not the expected 1949. RIAU had a close affiliation with Malaya and Singapore. And a currency where their rupiah was much stronger than the Indonesian rupiah. They joined Indonesia in a loose way in 1950 and maintained a rupiah much stronger than Indonesia's rupiah. The Netherlands maintained that West Irian was never part of Indonesia and West Irian felt the same way about it...they kvetched for about a decade. The UN got involved and gave the territory to Indonesia in the early 1960s. At this time Indonesia created a rupiah that was linked to the dutch guilder so it was waaaaay more powerful than Indonesiahs rupiah. It was this coinage for West Irian that was edge lettered for Riau and there rupiah linked to the Malay and Borneo dollar. Soo...they were territories with currency unique to the territory and different from Indonesia and its currency. Soooo...if Numista is a money website and not a geographical website, then the independent and unique rupiah of both territories should be honored with equal status to Indonesia's rupiah. It was only secondarily that the currency of Riau and West Irian were cancelled and changed to the much weaker Indonesian rupiah. I believe they deserve status that isnt secondary to Indonesia.

Quote: "Oklahoman"So...they were territories with currency unique to the territory and different from Indonesia and its currency. Soooo...if Numista is a money website and not a geographical website, then the independent and unique rupiah of both territories should be honoured with equal status to Indonesia's rupiah. It was only secondarily that the currency of Riau and West Irian were cancelled and changed to the much weaker Indonesian rupiah. I believe they deserve status that isn't secondary to Indonesia.

​I strongly believe the same thing, like I already told before. It's not because they are part of contemporary Indonesia they have to be listed under Indonesia. At a certain moment in time they had their own currency, except for the name totally different from the Indonesian rupiah, so I certainly don't understand why calling this a "third level country". They both deserve their own listing. And the amount of coins is totally unimportant. Even a country with only 1 coin is still a country and needs it's own listing.

Quote: "Essor Prof"​

Quote: "Oklahoman"So...they were territories with currency unique to the territory and different from Indonesia and its currency. Soooo...if Numista is a money website and not a geographical website, then the independent and unique rupiah of both territories should be honoured with equal status to Indonesia's rupiah. It was only secondarily that the currency of Riau and West Irian were cancelled and changed to the much weaker Indonesian rupiah. I believe they deserve status that isn't secondary to Indonesia.
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​​I strongly believe the same thing, like I already told before. It's not because they are part of contemporary Indonesia they have to be listed under Indonesia. At a certain moment in time they had their own currency, except for the name totally different from the Indonesian rupiah, so I certainly don't understand why calling this a "third level country". They both deserve their own listing. And the amount of coins is totally unimportant. Even a country with only 1 coin is still a country and needs it's own listing.

​Third level is just a technicality. Problem is that we cannot create third level at the moment. (You can see example of this if you look at Yemen - that is first level, North Yemen is second level and Yemen - Arab Republic is third.)

What I still do not know, if I should consider them separate countries, that were merged into Indonesia - that would make them second level, alongside Indonesia and Netherlands East Indies under 1st level Indonesia group. Or if they were parts of Indonesia with different currencies, just "deviating" from Indonesia standard (due to economic connections to other states in the region). That would make them third level country under Indonesia. I am more inclined to second option, and that will sadly have to wait for Xavier intervention.

So when I look up Riau it pops up under Indonesia...and when I look up Irian Barat, it pops up under Indonesia...But when I type in Indonesia, there is not a subheading for Riau, just for Irian Barat.

Please read this thread. This probably needs tweeked, since both of these independent nations had a currency that was not based on a common currency, or that of Indonesia.

Can this be looked into, it has been some years now...


I cringe at my tone of years ago. I very much appreciate Numista.