French double tournois [solved]

7 posts
Can anyone help identity this coin? It's not in great shape, although these scans make it look worse than it is. I bought it because it is the oldest coin I now own and it was only 20 cents from a bulk bin!

Obverse:
Left facing monarch with crown
LUD . XIIID(?) ...T . NAV . REX

Reverse:
Three fleurs de lis
"A"(?) at top
DOUBLE TOURNOIS
164(?)(maybe 3?)

Coin is oblong but diameter is 19.7 - 21 mm. Weight is 1.96 g.

Maybe it is a variety of this one?
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces52949.html

It doesn't match the photo exactly, but it looks like there were different variants of the legend.

I don't know much at all about these older coins. Are these "hammered coins"?
I don't think so. It was the period screw presses started to be commonly used.

Can you see if the laurels have berries on it? Is there a dot between the minting year and the mintmark?

If you can answer these questions you can determine which variety of this 1643A coin you have.

I can already say the variety Aa5 is out as there is a dot after the A mintmark on your coin. A dot after the minting year would be for sure Aa4. Laurels with berries would be Ba3 as well. For now there is no known combination of both (Ba4).
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Quote: "chomp-master"​​Can you see if the laurels have berries on it? Is there a dot between the minting year and the mintmark?




I don't think there is a dot between the year and the A. There is some corrosion there making it hard to see, but I can see the 3, and then the cross, and then the A. There doesn't look like there would be room for a dot between the year and the cross, or the cross and the A.

I think the obverse is too far gone to determine whether there are berries on the laurels. I didn't even recognize it as laurels until I found the Numista page for the coin. Do you know where exactly I should be looking for the berries?

Do you think I should grade this as Fair?
A cross? I don't see a cross anywhere.

There should not have a cross except in perfect vertical alignment, like the variety shown on the file. According to your pic, we have the mintmark instead.

I've no idea about where to find these berries on the laurels. I only translated the French file missing informations.

I won't give any grade here as I'm not enough aware about this.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Quote: "chomp-master"​A cross? I don't see a cross anywhere.

​There should not have a cross except in perfect vertical alignment, like the variety shown on the file. According to your pic, we have the mintmark instead.

​I've no idea about where to find these berries on the laurels. I only translated the French file missing informations.

​I won't give any grade here as I'm not enough aware about this.
​Oh, well maybe I do have the dot, then. It's hard to see with the corrosion at 12 o'clock, but there's definitely something between the date and the mintmark. I assumed it was the right-hand arm of the cross depicted in the image, but if there wouldn't be a cross with a mintmark, then I guess it must be a dot? So that would make this Aa4?

Thanks for your help with this, by the way.
If it is a dot, then it is Aa4 variety.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.

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