The Republic of Ireland or simply Ireland is a Western European country on the island of Ireland, which is the second largest of the British Isles. The country shares the island with Northern Island, which is a country within the UK. Ireland has a population of 4.75 million.
Flag of Ireland. Green is the national colour and orange symbolises the protestant minority, which mostly live in Northern Ireland and which is part of the UK.
History
Ireland was originally inhabited by a neolithic culture of which certain structures still exist after more than 5000 years. Around 400 BC Celtic tribes started immigrating and assimilating on the island, which explains that the Irish Gaelic language is strongly related to other Celtic languages. Christianity arrived with Saint Patrick, the most important Irish patron saint, arriving in Ireland in 432 AD. The assumed day of his death, 17 March, is known as Saint Patrick's Day and is celebrated by Irish communities around the globe.
Middle Ages (432-1542)
Ireland went through a golden age in the 8th century, with a number of Irish missionaries spreading Christianity across Northern Europe. In 795 this was disrupted by the first Viking raid which would continue for more than a century. The Vikings founded the first Irish cities, such as Dublin, Limerick and Cork, and together with the Irish they formed a distinct Hiberno-Norse culture.
Ireland before the Norman invasion. Many Irish kingdoms and some coastal Viking settlements which still form Ireland's oldest cities.
In 1177 the Normans, which had Norse roots but came through Normandy and England, invaded Ireland and established the Lordship of Ireland. The lord was usually the King of England or a member of the royal family. This period marks the start of almost 750 years of British rule in Ireland, although it was limited to certain parts of Ireland in the first centuries of English presence.
Kingdom of Ireland (1542-1801)
King Henry VIII was proclaimed King of Ireland in 1542, from which England and Ireland were in personal union. Many wars and revolts erupted between Irish and English, especially when the English started a process of land confiscations that removed Irish Catholic land owners in favour of English Protestants.
One of the most important clashes between the Irish and English happened during the Jacobite-Williamite Wars from 1688 until 1691. The Jacobites supported the deposed English King James II, opposing the new King William III of Orange who was also Stadtholder of the Dutch Republic. Most Irish supported James in the hope he would give them more autonomy, but their army was defeated in the Battle of the Boyne in 1690. This battle is still celebrated yearly by Northern Irish Unionists during the Orange Marches, which often leads to tensions with Irish nationalists.
The struggle between Irish Catholics and those allied to the English continued in the 18th century. Another large rebellion in 1798 inspired the English to completely incorporate Ireland into the United Kingdom 1801. Ireland had now lost its nominal independence and was only represented by a number of MP's in London.
Union with England (1801-1922)
The English tried to assimilate Ireland as a constituent country of the UK, favouring Anglo-Irish protestants while occasionally trying to appease the dissenting catholic majority, which was unsuccessful. The harshest period in Irish history were the Great Famines of the late 1840's, in which a million people starved to death and millions emigrated overseas, mostly to the USA. Before the famine Ireland had a population of 8 million, compared to 5.9 million living currently on the island, illustrating the dramatic consequences.
A plan for Home Rule was proposed in 1910, but Irish nationalists could not agree to the terms. The outbreak of World War I accelerated the sequence of events in Ireland. Radical nationalist Irishmen started the failed Easter Uprising in 1916. The British reprisals to the uprising only had the counter effect that the population became more supportive of full independence rather than home rule. Ireland declared independence in 1919, which led to the Irish War of Independence from 1920 to 1922. The six counties of Northern Ireland (or Ulster), which is roughly half protestant half catholic, decided to opt-out of independence as part of the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921. From 1922 Ireland was partitioned in the Irish Free State and Northern Ireland which has remained part of the UK up to this date.
Map of the British Isles, with the Republic of Ireland in green. Britain is the biggest island with Scotland, Wales and England. Together with Northern Ireland they form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island. The Isle of Man in the Irish Sea is an autonomous Crown Dependency not part of the UK.
Ireland since 1922
The Anglo-Irish Treaty provided that Ireland became a Dominion within the British Empire in the form of a free state. The British monarch was head of state of Irish Free State until 1937, when Ireland was declared a republic.
The complex situation with Northern Ireland gave rise to The Troubles, an ongoing conflict between republicans wanting to reunite the two parts and the unionists wanting to keep the status quo. In 1969, the British Army took over police tasks in Northern Ireland after continuing clashes. Though initially welcomed as a neutral force, the events of Bloody Sunday in 1972 marked a low point when 14 protesters were shot dead in Londonderry. It inspired U2 to write the famous song 'Sunday Bloody Sunday' released in 1983. The Good Friday Agreements of 1998 were first of its kind to end the hostilities. Even though the truce is somewhat fragile and both sides are still suspicious, the development of the Irish economy and wariness of decades of conflict has also contributed to most people settling their differences and live in peace.
Because of its geographic isolation, Ireland remained one of the poorest countries in Europe for decades and its economy was almost completely focused on the UK. Both countries joined the EEC in 1973. It took until the 1990's before an economic boom (the Celtic Tiger) occurred driven by American companies attracted by favourable tax regimes. Rising incomes, home shortage and risk defying Irish banks all fueled a housing bubble which popped in 2008, sending Ireland almost to a souvereign default and exit from the Euro. An enormous recession was the result with the biggest bank bailout in European history. However, the Celtic Tiger is now often dubbed the Celtic Phoenix because Ireland recovered unexpectedly quickly from 2013.
Currency Old Irish Pound (997-1826)
The first Irish coins date from 997, when silver pennies, based on the English ones, were minted. The Irish adopted the same monetary system of Pounds, Shillings and Pennies where a Pound was 20 Shillings and a Shilling worth 12 Pence. From the 15th century the Irish coins started diverging in silver content but in 1701 it was pegged to the English Pound at a rate of 13 Pence Irish = 1 English Shilling.
Besides regular coinage a lot of tokens were minted to deal with the shortage in small change. During the Jacobite-Williamite War (1688-1691, see above) brass Gun Money was minted in Ireland in name of King James II.
Ireland became fully part of the UK in 1801, but Irish coins were minted until 1826 before being replaced by British Pound Sterling.
New Irish Pound (1928-2001)
It took a couple of years after independence before the Irish Free State started minting its own coins in 1928. This new Irish currency was pegged to the British Pound Sterling at par. The coins had their denominations in Gaelic rather than English:
From 1938 Seirstát Éireann (Free State) was replaced by simply Éire after the country became a republic. Silver was discontinued from 1943 and replaced by copper-nickel. In 1971 the Pound was decimalised into 100 New Pence, more or less at the same time the UK decimalised.
The link with British Pounds was broken when Ireland joined the European Monetary System (EMS) in 1979. All coins introduced after that year (20p in 1986, £1 in 1990) looked completely different than their UK counterparts, whereas before all coins had been of same size and composition. The Irish Pound fell slightly to around IR£ 1.12 = GB£ 1 by the time it was replaced in 1999 by the Euro at a rate of IR£ 0.787564 per €. Irish Euro coins continued the old designs with the harp.
Excellent piece. I have quite a lot of Irish coins and also have 99% of all their stamps from 1922 Overprints to the early 2000s. Their stamps are even more interesting. One set in 1978 commemorated the 50th anniversary of the coins and another issue in 1997 showed the first penny of Brian Boru in 997. A 2002 stamp showed the introduction of the Euro there.
Of the coins, interestingly in 1928, only the 1/-, 2/- and 2/6 were issued in .750 silver until 1943 and all the 3d and 6d were cupronickel. The pence and fractions were the standard copper, unlike the UK which ditched the farthing in 1956, Ireland kept theirs until 1967. There was also a 1966 issue of a 10/- coin which was in silver and showed Patrick Pearse as it celebrated the 50th anniversary of the Easter Uprising, and there is a uncirculated set of all 8 coins in a green plastic folder.
In 1939 the inscription changed from "Saorstat Eireann" to plain old "Eire" when Ireland became independent fully of the British Commonwealth. Despite this all Independence era coins to the Euro, were minted at the Royal Mint.
I love all their coins, but my favourite is the design on the £1 coin of 1990 with the stag, looks very majestic.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Old Irish coins (pre 1826) are not widespread. In Krause they're mentioned under 'Ireland'. The lettering on my Georges III half penny uses the old Latin 'Hibernia'. (The Romans never invaded Ireland did they?)
Nevertheless, I prefer the 'animal farm' on the Irish coins since 1928. (In Krause mentioned under 'Irish Republic'). The Numista catalog mentions a 0.750 fineness for the pre 1945 Scilling to half Coroin (got only one of those).
The Irish coinage 1928 - 2000s: An essay by Moneytane.
Ireland had 3 major phases of its own coinage from 1928 onwards.
After gaining Independence from the United Kingdom in 1922, it embarked on an internal civil war which saw the faction supporting a Free State agreement with the UK more than a fully Republican state. The Civil war saw the death of Independence hero, Michael Collins. Also the 7 northern counties of Ulster remained as part of the UK.
Until 1928 British coins were still used in Ireland, and unlike the stamps which were overprinted immediately in February 1922 and own issues appeared from December 1922 - coins had to wait.
All the coins had a common obverse of an Irish harp similar to the one that appeared on older tokens and coins issued before 1928. This harp has survived to the modern Euro coins.
Free State and Eire obverses
The two types of Harp designs. The coin on the left was used between 1928 and 1937 and had the Gaelic Inscription "Saorstat Eireann" = Free State Ireland.
In 1937 a new constitution which saw the country Eire established meant it was no longer a Free State or needed an English Governor General and the office of President (An Taoiseach) was established. But full Republican status did not arrive until 1949. Still coins from 1938 onwards were merely inscribed "Eire".
The first coin designs
Florin - Salmon --------------Sixpence - Dog ----------------------Halfcrown - Horse
Penny - Chicken and chicks - Shilling - Large Bull -------Halfpenny - Pig and Pigeens
Farthing - Woodcock/Starling - Threepence - Rabbit
The coins were designed by British artist Percy Metcalfe and all minted at the Royal mint.
The designs were very striking and showed mostly farm animals. From 1928 to 1945, the One Shilling upwards were minted at 75% silver and the 3d/6d were Cupro Nickel base metal, whilst
The Pingin and Lower coins were Bronze.
Despite the different metal for the "Silver" denominations, all coins were the same size and weight as equivalent British coins and were at parity to the pound.
These designs would be reused through the decimal era. The 3d and 6d use Reuls which are based on the Spanish Real.
Translation of Irish Gaelic on coins
Feorling = Farthing (¼d) Leit Pingin = Half penny (½d) Pingin = Penny (1d) Leit Reul = Threepence (3d) Reul = Sixpence (6d) Scilling = Shilling (1/-) Floirin = Florin (2/-) Leit Coroin = Half Crown (2/6) Leit = Half
Irish coins were not minted every year, but some years are less common than others. Examples include 1945 6d and 1942 and 1943 Halfcrowns.
In 1947 Ireland switched to Cupronickel for the 1/-, 2/- and 2/6 coins.
Update - took some new photos, when it was light again - its nearly winter now and we only 10 hours of daylight.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Imagine the kids from Angela's Ashes if they saw all that
(Princetane's duplicate pile of early Irish coins)
Ireland was quite poor before the 1980s and there was little emphasis put on special issues, just the same coins coming out year after year. We have to wait until 1966, just 5 years before the decimal changeover to see anything interesting.
Of course in 1947 they changed to cupronickel, but no actual coins above 1/- were issued between 1943 and 1951.
In 1966 it was the 50th year of the Easter Uprising and the Martyrdom it created, most Irish were actually not big supporters of Home Rule until it - but after the dramatic English over reaction - 13 hangings, 1000 jail sentences and blowing up half of Dublin - along with the hanging also of Roger Casement in 1916 for apparently being a spy for Germany - Ireland fell in line towards independence. In 1966 a gala was planned with a large stamp issue, celebrations and also a set of commemorative coins.
Well a special set of standard coins and a 10/- Silver piece showing Patrick Pearse.
The plastic wallet Set of uncirculated coins
The 10/- was silver and quite a thick coin - It shows a statue of CuChulainn an Irish warrior of the Heroic period (around 100 - 300AD) which sits outside the Dublin GPO - the one nlown to smithereens by the Brits.
and also has "Deic Scilling" = 10 shillings - there is not much evidence they circulated as there was a 10/- note. Being silver - no doubt most were hoarded.
Edges have in Gaelic - Eiri Amach na Casca 1916 = Easter Uprising 1916
Patrick Pearse 1966 10/- coin
The design by was T Humphrey Paget - the designer of the KGVI portrait on British, NZ and Australian coins.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Ireland changed over to Decimal currency on the same day as the UK, which made sense as all their coins were still minted at the Royal Mint - now in Llantrisant.
Promotional wallet 1969/70 1970 dated 50p and 5p
The process started in 1967 with the withdrawal of the worthless farthing coin and then in 1969 with the demonitisation of the Halfcrown. The rest of the coins were used up to Feb 15th 1971 the day before changeover.
The new decimal coins again featured designs carried over from the old ones for the 3 "silver" values. The 10p and 5p reprised the Salmon and Bull on the 2/- and 1/- coins, their equivalents. Like the UK a decimal punt (pound) was worth the same as a sterling punt. Meaning that a shilling was 5p. The 50p used the woodcock from the now obselete farthing.
This meant the copper pennies and halfpennies had no place in the new system. The folders shown came out in mid 1969 and featured the 6 coins all dated 1971 (The copper) and 1969 (The 5p, 10p and 50p). A later edition had 1970 dated 50p's like mine.
These coins were issued as sets, but apart from the 3 top coins, the rest were not legal tender until 1971. The three copper coins showed Irish birds and were designed by Miss Gabriel Hayes.
The 50p circulated as a 10 shilling piece and the 10 shilling note was retired.
Despite all this, the old coins were issued up to 1968 and Sixpences were even issued dated 1969!
On February 16th 1971, Ireland went decimal!
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Ireland switched to the decimal pound on 15/16 February 1971 and the old coins had a tolerance of a year as they were bought in. Of course the old 1/- and 2/- coins circulated along the new 5p and 10p until the early 1990s.
A set of the 6 original coins with a extra 2p showing the common obverse on all of them.
The 3 Low values were minted in bronze until 1988 and the 3 Top values were in Cupro nickel.
In the mid 1970s, the Irish punt was floated free of the British pound and as a result the value of the Irish unit slumped slightly so that by 1990 an Irish pound was worth around 85 - 92p British.
The later 1980s saw some changes, first of all in 1985 due to inflation, the ½p was to be discontinued, this was a year after the British demonitised theirs. Also with the inflation, the gap between 10p and 50p was becoming onerous and a new value was needed to plug that gap.
The British had introduced a hexagonal 20p coin in 1982 that looked like a smaller version of the 50p. However the Irish chose a Brass coin that was slightly larger than the 5p and smaller than the 2p and a round coin to boot. The new coin reused the Horse design that was formerly on the Half crown.
20 pence coin £1 (Punt) coin with new design
Very rare patterns of the 20p emerged in 1985, but the coin only arrived for circulation in 1986 and was used through to the Euro in 2001. Later in 1986 the Halfpence coins were demonitised and in 1988 the 1p and 2p coins changed from Bronze to copper plated steel to save money.
The 1988 coins are issued in both metals and you can tell them apart by 2 ways - the steel coins are generally shinier and feel lighter and they are magnetic. In 1988 also a commemorative 50p was issued to celebrate the millienary of Dublin, as in 1966 a commemorative stamp was also issued.
Continuing inflation saw the need for another denomination and this was the £1 punt. The note for this value was showing up increasingly tatty and worthless and thus a coin would be seen as a more durable alternative. A very nice coin showing a stag was issued and the same Harp obverse with a thicker rim. The rim is elaborate and has two edges surrounding a slight recess with small dots on it. The Pound was issued in 1990 and was 30mm in size and weighed 10 grams exactly. The coin was popular and issued through to 2000. A special millenium pound showing the Broighter Boat was issued that year.
The 50p in these 1990 stamps shows the Broigter boat.
This was a boat model in solid gold of Iron Age date, recovered from a bog in Northern Ireland and considered a national masterpiece.
Sadly I don't have either coin.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
The next big change was in 1992 when Ireland became emeshed in the European community and agreed to join the Euro common currency. This was in opposition to the UK which did not adopt the Euro. Not surprisingly the Irish were not rapt about their neighbours leaving the EU either.
New and old 5p's New and old 10p's
In 1992 the Irish decided to shrink the size of their 5p coins and unlike the UK still amde them out of cupronickel rather than steel. This also happened 2 years later than the UK. In 1993 they finally shrunk the 10p as well - the new coins looked the same as the old ones - except they decided to have the salmon and the bull facing in the opposite direction! The 50p coin was not shrunk like the UK one was in 1997.
Through the 1980s and into the 1990s, Ireland became wealthy with the role of agriculture and the Roman Catholic church declining, there was real growth in education and technology and the advantage of being an English speaking country in the EU (Despite all the Gaelic on the coins and stamps, only 3% of Irish people can speak it and the whole population sans a few old people out west can speak English perfectly), at the end of the day English is the real language of Ireland although the preservation and promotion of Irish Gaelic (Gaelliege) is very important and the West has an area called the Gaeltacht, which is Irish speaking - bilingual speaking is encouraged throughout the rest of the country.
Irish culture also took off with music and performing arts, the 1990s was the era of Riverdance, Father Ted, U2, the Cranberries etc. After years of being laughed at and being the butt of racist jokes and anti Catholic humour in the UK and America, the Irish now had respect. By 2005 Ireland was one of the richest countries in the world and had surged ahead of the UK. In 1995 the Good Friday accord saw the end of the endless fighting in the north, yet tensions simmer to this day and the North remains a thorn in the side of both Dublin and Westminster with its conservative and socially backwards government.
Ireland also became known for its liberal society, Gays got rights quicker than anywhere else in the UK and Europe outside the Netherlands and Scandinavia, with Irish gays and lesbians marrying, immigration surged and an Ideas economy came about, Mary Robinson became the first female Prime minister. For a country that is over 90% Roman catholic, that is massive!
Back to the coins.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Overall this period is the least exciting as the coins were very plain compared to the older issues.
On January 1 2002, Ireland switched to the Euro, but preparations began much earlier with prices being expressed in both currencies from late 2000 onwards (If my stamp collection is anything to go by).
The exchange rate from punt to euro was roughly €1.00 = £0.785 or £1 = €1.27.
The euro cent coins and additional 2 cents showing Obverse
The coins were all issued on January 1 2002 and there was the usual toleration period of a few months as new coins were issued for the old. Irish punt coins tendered often bought back change in Euros and their cents. The coins had the standard map of Europe reverse and the value in Euro cents or Euros and again the standard 8 coins were issued (1, 2, 5 cents in copper plated steel, 10, 20, 50c in Brass (Nordic Gold) and the bimetallic €1 and €2 (Nordic Gold and Stainless Steel I think).
Euro coins and a special Year of Literacy €2 in Gaelic
The common obverse on all coins was the Irish harp and being the fludity of the European union, coins of any Euro nation could circulate in Ireland and vice versa (I got my low values on my European tour in 2014 and imagine the elation when I got the Irish 2 cents in change in a cafe at the Corinth canal in Greece!), I think I also got the 10 cents in San Marino and the 50 cents in northern Italy at a place called Tarvisio.
Banknotes were the same as everywhere else and had the same designs, incredibly Gaelic was not one of the languages on them.
In 2007 the fragmented map of Europe became the joined map of Europe and as of 2020 these coins are still the same.
In 2007 with the Global Financial Crisis, the Celtic tiger got sick and a massive slump occurred, mass bankruptcies and unemployment racked Ireland and the recovery took longer than expected, things are decent now with Ireland the 3rd highest GDP in Europe after Norway and Luxembourg and more importantly doing better than its former colonial master.
Mountains of NCLT coins were issued in this era including commemorative circuting €2 coins like the year of Literacy one in base metals, but also coins from €3 up to €50 or more in various metals also celebrating Irish and European events - again like all my essays just focus on the circulating coins of these places - so maybe someone else can talk about those coins.
Once again, hope you enjoyed this romp through Irish numismatic history and a final note - is the coins of this country are surprisingly cheap, even the old silver ones. To pick a favourite coin - the 1966 Patrick Pearse 10/- coin - a great design and a unique coin. Most can be found uncirculated for 2 - 3 x melt (It has some 15 grams of silver in it).
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Ireland actually became a republic on 18 April 1949, not in 1937 or 1938.
Ireland was actually a Dominion within the British Commonwealth, even though the Irish Free State ceased to exist on 29 December 1937, when the Constitution of Ireland came into effect.
Ireland's coins from 1928 until 1975 were struck at the Royal Mint.
Since 1976, Ireland's coins have been struck in Dublin at a mint located in Sandyford.
Irish banknotes & coins dated 1949 & later are of interest to British Commonwealth numismatists like me.
Quote: "BCNumismatics"Ireland actually became a republic on 18 April 1949, not in 1937 or 1938.
Ireland was actually a Dominion within the British Commonwealth, even though the Irish Free State ceased to exist on 29 December 1937, when the Constitution of Ireland came into effect.
Ireland's coins from 1928 until 1975 were struck at the Royal Mint.
Since 1976, Ireland's coins have been struck in Dublin at a mint located in Sandyford.
Irish banknotes & coins dated 1949 & later are of interest to British Commonwealth numismatists like me.
Aidan.
AIDAN - Please read and digest every word.
I wish you read my submissions before rushing to find mistakes and make corrections.
"But full Republican status did not arrive until 1949" - Must have skipped your eyes Mr Accurato!
Irish - Decimal coins preparation 1967 - 1971
"Ireland changed over to Decimal currency on the same day as the UK, which made sense as all their coins were still minted at the Royal Mint - now in Llantrisant"
That was also in my posts - I meant coins minted in the 1969 - 1971 period, not after 1976 - no where does it say "after 1976".
I really think you should READ my posts before you take pot shots at me. As far as I am concerned if you have nothing useful to add, don't add it.
I don't see any of your posts or constructive essays here, all I see is an incredibly jealous and petty minded individual whose sole purpose is to go around correcting non existent mistakes and holding me to account for every word I give FREELY and to HELP other numismatists.
I am trying to help people get interested in the coins of these places - what are you doing.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Come on gents, please be considerate when posting. Everybody appreciates the info here but the personal rants we can do without.
Moneytane put a lot of effort in making this topic more complete, so it would be nice if that's appreciated. It's also best to just ignore any unhelpful comments. A neutral reader will quickly filter what he wants to see and read anyway.
So I hope you can behave right now and be like merry lads in a pub because it would be very sad if we'd have to lock this topic.
Fine with me, I only snapped as Aidan did this on my Fiji coin essay as well.
I would not mind if my posts were littered with mistakes, but I research before I write to ensure accuracy and yes occasionally a mistake gets out. However in the 2 essays, Aidan has accused me of 6 major errors and he proved 1.
The rest of his posts regurgitate things I said.
I am more than happy for you to delete my response posts to him, so we have the harmony of the facts. What would be nice if perhaps Aidan or someone else could add some details about the NCLT issues of Ireland of which I know nothing about and some people here probably collect these coins and want to know more about them.
I don't do these essays for glory or showing off. I do them as I feel I have a reasonable selection of the coins of a particular country and want to show these coins to numista people, so they can see what they look like and learn about the coins in a one stop thread. Also if they find an Irish coin and want to know more about its context beyond the catalogues.
Knowledge is power.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Despite all these political changes - I would lump all my Irish together in one country.
I know they were different political entities - but I like my countries nice and neat.
My Hibernian Half pennies and Irish bank tokens sit with these coins I described here, but they are so natty I am not showing them. Somewhere on an old thread, my 1766 Irish halfpenny is shown.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I would tend to lump coins together by country too.
Organise the coins chronologically, some of the political changes will reflect in the coins. For example, transitioning from Saorstát Éireann (Irish Free State) to Éire (Ireland). Or switching currency from Punt (Pound) to Euro.
The same can be applied to banknotes.
More subtle examples may exist in the designs. For example, the harp was chosen because it was considered by the Irish Free State government to be a symbol of the Irish rebellion.
Quote: "Jupiter"I would tend to lump coins together by country too.
Organise the coins chronologically, some of the political changes will reflect in the coins. For example, transitioning from Saorstát Éireann (Irish Free State) to Éire (Ireland). Or switching currency from Punt (Pound) to Euro.
The same can be applied to banknotes.
More subtle examples may exist in the designs. For example, the harp was chosen because it was considered by the Irish Free State government to be a symbol of the Irish rebellion.
The harp has long been on Irish coins as far back as Queen Elizabeth I's reign - therefore, it is actually a neutral symbol to represent Ireland itself.
Naturally, with the Irish banknotes & coins since 1928, I put them all in the British Commonwealth series anyway, to reflect their historical interest & for the sake of continuity - even those dated 1949 onwards.
The same thing applies with South Africa's banknotes & coins from 1961 to 1993 as well.
Quote: "BCNumismatics"
The harp has long been on Irish coins as far back as Queen Elizabeth I's reign - therefore, it is actually a neutral symbol to represent Ireland itself.
Actually the symbolism of the Harp became as iconic as other symbols of nationalism.
The Cláirseach harps were utilised to challenge the crowned figured harp of the United Kingdom. After trials, when the Irish Free State established its first coinage in 1928, the Cláirseach harp was chosen in deliberate contrast.
It is true that the crowned harp (depicted as a female figure with wings) represents the pre-1801 Kingdom of Ireland, it is also used to represent Northern Ireland,as is Hibernia with a crown placed above her.
The uncrowned harp has long been an Irish symbol long before the likes of Young Ireland & the Irish Republican Brotherhood ever came onto the scene.
Hibernia is always depicted with a harp - & is naturally, quite a neutral national symbol representing Ireland.
Apparently, a harp in Trinity College, Dublin was used as a model for Percy Metcalfe's obverse design - which is still used on the Irish Euro coin obverses.
1916 British Half Crown (The year of the Easter Rising)
1942 Half Crown - well after Irish Independence and when Northern Ireland was only part of the UK.
However for some reason after Decimal currency, the harp disappears on British coins to be replaced by the flax plant or the Irish lace and clovers on stamps.
The Irish harp is beloved by both the Irish and British, it is something we all love to "harp" on about!
Then again they had the French fleur de lis on their coins up to the late 18th century (Dorien Magens shilling 1798) and the last bit of French land in the British empire was lost in 1559!
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Quote: "Jupiter"I should have kept quiet. Lesson learned.
Goes to prove that the harp is a very old Irish symbol - one that is devoid of any political overtones whatsoever.
Even after 1928, British banknotes & coins were still accepted as currency in Ireland - right up until 1979, when the peg of the Irish Pound to the Pound Sterling was severed.
Jupiter - don't feel bad, life is all about learning experiences and I am thankful, I gotto show my obsession with British halfcrowns on an Irish coin page thanks to you.
Share the love!
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Quote: "Moneytane"Jupiter - don't feel bad, life is all about learning experiences and I am thankful, I gotto show my obsession with British halfcrowns on an Irish coin page thanks to you.
Share the love!
Thanks, Moneytane!
I was admiring your collection of British halfcrowns this morning.
I was looking through past issues of the Quarterly Bulletin published by Ireland's Central Bank.
On the origins of the Irish Pound, John Kelly writes that decision to link the Irish Pound to the Sterling was due extensive trading and financial relations with the United Kingdom and pure convenience. In the mid-1920s the United Kingdom accounted for 98% of exports and 80% of imports.
The link makes sense from an Irish Free State perspective. It would have also helped sustain confidence in the Irish Pound abroad.
Remarkably the link to the Sterling lasted until 1979. It is arguable the link should have ended earlier.
Elsewhere John Kelly notes that despite the introduction of the Coinage Act, 1926, British coins remained legal tender in Ireland until the Coinage Act, 1950.
Considering the link to Sterling and the events that followed in the 1930s, I am surprised British coins remained legal tender in Ireland for so long.
I am not, the countries shared a similar culture and language. I also collect stamps and have a peerless Irish collection. Many irish have intermarried with English and Scots, especially in the diaspora outside the British Isles. Despite Celtic roots, English is the main language of Ireland and 99% of all Irish can speak it well (Most of the non speakers are non Irish immigrants like Arabs and Asians).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_the_Irish_language,
The article shows that some 40% of Irish claim to speak it, but they do not test ability levels and it said only 40k to 80k would be fluent (Like 1- 2%) and only 8000 census forms were filled in, in Gaelic. In reality some 99% of Irish are likely to speak English as their everyday language and even Bank of Ireland ATMs showed less than 1% of transactions in Irish (99% being in English).
When you go to Ireland, the only Irish thing you will hear out of most mouths is a brogue! All of the Irish pop culture successful in the world is in English, no one spoke Gaelic on Father Ted, Mother Brown or the Commitments - U2 are yet to do a song in Gaelic.
For most 1922, they just overprinted British stamps
and believe me the Brits were not happy with their King defaced on the stamps.
They started to issue their own definitives in late 1922/23 and some of these were designed by English artists
The Map stamp above caused conroversy as it included the north as part of Ireland, and it was used through to 1969!
Ireland shared common currency and linguistic links with the UK. Despite all this tit for tat nonsense about Northern Ireland and Catholic vs Protestant, the majority of Irish people like the English - it is just we don't like being ruled by them - but as friends - totally. The Irish and English may have different cultural and linguistic roots (Celtic vs Anglo Saxon) but many British are descended from Celtic populations - the Scottish, Cornish, Welsh, Cumbric (Some people around the lake district), Manx and even Breton.
Ireland also switched to a decimal pound the same day as the UK
These are the Irish "Machins" except they were retired in 1982! Some of these designs are from artefacts found in the UK.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I agree the two countries do share a similar culture and a common language.
But I think your examples are poor.
The fact that both share a common language has more to do with the influence of British rule, in my opinion.
And that Irish is not widely spoken, fluently, I feel, is implicit recognition of the value of English over Irish as a language.
Although it's true that English artists have designed some Irish stamps and coins. This is not a reflection of cultural links. No more than Publio Morbiducci or Ivan Meštrović are a reflection of common cultural links [with] Italy or Croatia. The designs for new coins and stamps reflect the outcome of competitions. Sometimes artists were commissioned, like Gabriel Hayes.
Also, Ireland switching to decimalisation in line with the UK probably had more to do with the Irish Pound being linked to the Sterling.
P. S. - I collect pre-1960 Irish FDCs. My 1960s/70s collection is complete expect for differing covers.
Jupiter,
The Republic of Ireland should be back in the Commonwealth.
Quite a few prominent people in Ireland are advocating this - including Eamon O'Cuiv, whose maternal grandfather was Eamon de Valera, & Frank Feighan, who recently stepped down as a Senator in Seanad Eireann, as he was elected as a T.D. in Dail Eireann.
English is THE common language in Ireland, despite attempts to impose compulsory teaching of the Irish Gaelic language in all schools.
I don't think you will hear Irish Gaelic being spoken in Dublin, considering that Irish Gaelic is more commonly spoken in western Ireland, especially in Connaught & on some of the islands off the coast.
I have heard some Irish people say that the English, later the British, has left a lot of negativity in Ireland - but they forget that British rule brought some things that still exist today in Ireland, among them a proper system of administration, government, & educational institutions (such as Trinity College, Dublin).
Ireland's legal system still has strong British influence - including a system of courts, whose highest court, the Supreme Court of Ireland in Dublin performs appellate functions similar to that of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council in London (which the Irish Free State had the jurisdiction of from 1922 to 1933).
Shows Seahorses with Irish overprints catalogued at £500.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Quote: "Jupiter"The purpose of the Commonwealth is for international cooperation and to advance economics, social development, and human rights.
For Ireland, the Commonwealth offers nothing that hasn't or can't be achieved through the European Union or the Council of Europe.
There is a huge difference between the Commonwealth & the E.U. - as the Commonwealth is an international organisation with membership on every continent.
The Council of Europe & the E.U. are European regional organisations.
There are 3 Commonwealth countries in Europe - Cyprus, Malta, & the U.K..
Cyprus & Malta are also in the E.U. as well as in the Commonwealth - so, the Euro is a Commonwealth currency as much as the Pound Sterling is.
If Ireland was in the Commonwealth, the President would become a Commonwealth head of state, & the Prime Minister would become a Commonwealth head of government.
Ireland would be exchanging High Commissioners with other Commonwealth countries, instead of Ambassadors - including with the U.K..
Internally, nothing would change regarding Ireland's legal system & system of government themselves.
Patrick Pearse says stop the malarkey and blarney both of ye, begorrah - this is an information thread on Irish numismatics, not semantics about the Commonwealth.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
A 1922 Great Britain (GB) one penny red embossed George V postcard to Dublin with Dollard Rialtas half-penny green affixed to make up the three halfpence domestic rate. The combination of the stamps of two countries was legal because British postal stationery was valid until 1924 in Ireland, despite British stamps being disallowed from April 1st, 1922.
I have to say nice coins BC Numismatics, better than my worn Hibernian half penny.
If it helps, it was basically free, almost certain its 1766 or 1769.
Much better my SILVER half crowns
1928 - gVF, 1933 - aVF, 1939 - VF and 1940 - aEF!
You will notice the Free State Reverse used between 1928 and 1937, Ireland became a Republic in 1949, but essentially was free of British Dominionship from 1937 (Complete Independence) and counted as the new constitution (Sep 21 1937 I think). However the old reverse was used on 1937 coins, and no coins were issued dated 1938.
So the EIRE reverse is only on coins dated 1939 onwards. The 21st November 1949 was full Republic
status.
Free state and Republic Reverses (All my photos will enlarge)
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
My huge collection of Irish stamps includes the following.
My oldest stamp used in Ireland
1854 Perforated Penny Red used with Dublin Lozenge cancel - October 5 1855 or 166 years ago, 67 years before their own stamps.
1953 Booklet (Pre 1962 Booklets of Ireland are very scarce)
Very early cover to America
1924 Registered mail
Early First Day Cover
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
"We are delighted to announce that our collector coin website www.collectorcoins.ie has been updated and we hope that you will enjoy the new look and layout.
2022 Collector Coin Programme
Our next coin scheduled to be launched in late July, is a beautiful silver proof coin paying tribute to the remarkable life of Dr Kathleen Lynn and her political, medical and social achievements. Dr Lynn established St Ultan’s hospital in 1919, which became the specialist hospital for the BCG vaccination in Ireland. She worked tirelessly with Dublin’s inner-city poor and in particular deprived mothers and children. Dr Lynn was politically active during the 1913 Dublin Lock-Out, the 1916 Rising and the War of Independence. She was Chief Medical Officer of the Irish Citizen Army and a member of the executive committee of the Irish Women’s Suffragette and Local Government Association. The coin, presented in a box with certificate of authenticity, containing background text and images will be available on www.collectorcoins.ie. [….]"
You may have noticed but I'm the new referee for Irish coinage! I can see this thread has been dead for a while, but maybe we can bring it back to life??
Between the middle ages and 1928, occasional coins were issued for Ireland by the British or private individuals.
These were in addition to English (to 1707) and British (post 1707) coinage, that was legal tender in Ireland.
Most of these coins were low value coppers, mostly useful to the average Irish person rather than lord. There were some silver coins like the 5d and 10d silver bank tokens from the early 1800s.
One more semi private one, were the Woods Halfpennies and farthings issued between 1722 and 1724. These showed the British King George I on them. They also had Hibernia holding a giant Irish harp (A device and logo used heavily by the British for their Irish subjects). The coins were not that popular as they were considered underweight next to standard British coppers. They also wore a lot and my VG/FIne Halfpenny of 1723 is probably an above average one. The coins were very popular in the American Colonies though.
Two more halfpennies, which were official Mint issues were from 1805 (Left) and 1822 (Right). The former was the last specific coin for Ireland until 1928. These were minted by the Steam presses that produced the Cartwheel coins and heavy perfectly round copper coins of the 1797 to 1820 period. They both have the high rims and again use the harp device. The word Hibernia is merely Latin for Ireland.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Some nicer early silver coins I picked up in the past couple of years.
1941 Shilling, probably AU with very nice harp detail. I love to keep harping on about it!
A slightly more worn 1928 (1st year) coin, here you have the earlier Free State Ireland (Saorstat Eireann) obverse.
A very pale but high grade 1940 florin (EF - AU)
More worn 1942 florin, these coins have a pale washed out colour, although Irish silver was .750 fine not .500 fine like British silver of the time.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Shame about the hole, otherwise a really nice piece - a true rarity and missing from mine and many other people's collections.
A much more common 1941 Halfcrown, any silver Irish coin is an event in my question, you don't see many down this way.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
recently got the Martin book that covers all varieties of Wood’s hibernia coinage. If anyone needs the Martin variety of their coinage along with rarity, I’d be happy to help and probably will get the variety identified for you if the coin is not too far destroyed.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Hmm I’ll try but from corrosion I might not be able to but I’ll try. Also might be better with more focus photos of you are able to.
Okay I will see what I can do.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Hmm I’ll try but from corrosion I might not be able to but I’ll try. Also might be better with more focus photos of you are able to.
Okay I will see what I can do.
Yeah unfortunately I can not find what variety this is in this shape. If it were not a 11 string 1723 version I maybe could have since there are not such a sheer amount of smaller varieties in other groups
Hmm I’ll try but from corrosion I might not be able to but I’ll try. Also might be better with more focus photos of you are able to.
Okay I will see what I can do.
Yeah unfortunately I can not find what variety this is in this shape. If it were not a 11 string 1723 version I maybe could have since there are not such a sheer amount of smaller varieties in other groups
It definitely is one of the obverse 4 and reverse Gc die pairs though but there are many variations of that
@Moneytane you know what? This very well could actually be a 1722 I think I see the hook of a 2 as the last digit
Nvm in the book no obverse 4’s and these ones a little later into the decimal place because of a close S in Georgius and D in Deinthat match up to this are reverse C which would be 1722 harp to right. So it is a 1723 unfortunately I can not find out which it is.
Definitely a 3, but hard to photo diagonally, did a scan on 500 pixels but that tails side just will not clear up. The Heads side looks good, much less worn than tails.
Photos are enlargeable if clicked on, hopefully you can work out more here. Thanks for any help, this coin was cheap ($30 or something) and I love it.
Don't worry I won't be annoyed if it turns out to be a contemporary counterfeit or a ultra common variety.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Definitely a 3, but hard to photo diagonally, did a scan on 500 pixels but that tails side just will not clear up. The Heads side looks good, much less worn than tails.
Photos are enlargeable if clicked on, hopefully you can work out more here. Thanks for any help, this coin was cheap ($30 or something) and I love it.
Definitely a 3, but hard to photo diagonally, did a scan on 500 pixels but that tails side just will not clear up. The Heads side looks good, much less worn than tails.
Photos are enlargeable if clicked on, hopefully you can work out more here. Thanks for any help, this coin was cheap ($30 or something) and I love it.
Don't worry I won't be annoyed if it turns out to be a contemporary counterfeit or a ultra common variety.
Well with these new pictures I can confirm the obverse. And that Obverse only pairs up with one reverse. And the Rarity scale for this is 7 meaning it is pretty rare shame it is on bad shape
Definitely a 3, but hard to photo diagonally, did a scan on 500 pixels but that tails side just will not clear up. The Heads side looks good, much less worn than tails.
Photos are enlargeable if clicked on, hopefully you can work out more here. Thanks for any help, this coin was cheap ($30 or something) and I love it.
Don't worry I won't be annoyed if it turns out to be a contemporary counterfeit or a ultra common variety.
Well with these new pictures I can confirm the obverse. And that Obverse only pairs up with one reverse. And the Rarity scale for this is 7 meaning it is pretty rare shame it is on bad shape
And yeah the reverse it says it pairs up with seems correct in this new photo.
@Moneytane your coin is a scarce Martin# 4.50-Gc.9 variant. Shame it is in bad shape. Rarity Scale of R7 meaning 7-9 thought to exist. I’ve looked over all 4’s with deep attention to detail and the only one that matches up is 4.50 and then on the reverse the Gc.9 has 11 strings like yours and the strings have the same spacing this is a 4.50-Gc.9
@Moneytane your coin is a scarce Martin# 4.50-Gc.9 variant. Shame it is in bad shape. Rarity Scale of R7 meaning 7-9 thought to exist. I’ve looked over all 4’s with deep attention to detail and the only one that matches up is 4.50 and then on the reverse the Gc.9 has 11 strings like yours and the strings have the same spacing this is a 4.50-Gc.9
@Moneytane your coin is a scarce Martin# 4.50-Gc.9 variant. Shame it is in bad shape. Rarity Scale of R7 meaning 7-9 thought to exist. I’ve looked over all 4’s with deep attention to detail and the only one that matches up is 4.50 and then on the reverse the Gc.9 has 11 strings like yours and the strings have the same spacing this is a 4.50-Gc.9
I was already leaning on this as a possibility before you sent the other photos but the reverse I could not be certain on and as it would be a quite rare variety I was holding back. With this new photo I can see all the strings are correct on the harp on the reverse which all were cut by hand meaning on all dies they are different. That and the obverse being the only match in the book thus makes me certain that this is the correct variant. Also in the book it states on the obverse that the die was often filled with grease making the 3rd stop (dot) not there which is the case on yours. Almost that often it would not have the middle line in the E in REX but that is not the case for yours. That just means the die had excess grease meaning it definitely is the fact the grease was gone from the E at the time but not the 3rd dot.
Thank you for all that work and a fascinating conclusion, 1 of 10 surviving (known) coins - thats incredible. I never saw it more than a common version. Best of my Irish halfpennies which include a flat 1766/69 one, Fine 1805, VF 1822 (Best) and then straight into modern 1928 coins.
Fascinating you went to all that work. THANK YOU!
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Thank you for all that work and a fascinating conclusion, 1 of 10 surviving (known) coins - thats incredible. I never saw it more than a common version. Best of my Irish halfpennies which include a flat 1766/69 one, Fine 1805, VF 1822 (Best) and then straight into modern 1928 coins.
Fascinating you went to all that work. THANK YOU!
No problem often rare variants are hard to know unless you have the book because it is so similar. Also this would not go for the price like a rare fugio of similar rarity would go. It definitely will go for more than a regular rarity variety but not that that much since there is not such a huge market by rarity for these as there is for fugio’s. It would definitely be a good amount of money if in better shape but not in this shape along with the fact the variety market for these is not high like on fugio’s
Its all good, keeping this coin anyway, its currently my oldest Irish coin (Although minted by an Englishman and used mostly in the American colonies). Good to know about it.
The auctioned coin was $300 and that was gVF, coin in my condition would be therefore around the $60 mark if someone wanted it.
Hope someone else posts another one, so you can analyse it.
Its fun analysing people's treasures, my friend gave me some Greek hemiobols and I managed to date one and 2 Roman antoniannuses he had too!
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Not the same type, but i did find this 1769 George III half penny in world bulk
For that type, that coin is in stunning condition, I always see it worn and corroded, my one is truly foul.
It could be 1766 or 1769 we will never know. It was given to me for cents.
Silvergeek, I realise that Woods coinage was used heavily in America and Americans love them as they consider them colonial coins. I only found that out when I bought my bluebook and its section on pre colonial and colonial coins showed them.
It seemed Ireland got a raw deal with British made pieces in the 18th and 19th centuries made for them, smaller and cheaper than British (Great Britain) ones. I mean a standard halfpenny of the 1720s - 1750s weighed 9.0 to 9.4 grams, but Irish coins were only 8 grams or less.
The earliest 1800s era bought the bank tokens, UK got Spanish dollars, 3/- and 1/6, whereas Ireland got 5d and 10d!
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
My 1928 Proof set (Well it just looks UNC, maybe the fields were polished). This was the first year of modern coins and just 6,001 sets were minted, I am of the opinion this set was issued in 1928 or at least before as its the blue velvet inner and the box says Free State, any box after 1937 would say Ireland or Republic of Ireland.
This thing looks 97 or 98 years old too, coins are essentially UNC, but toned from years of pawing I suspect, the florin may have some wear and I have graded it AU.
The coins, some look like they are from different sets, but look better in person, bronze always tone and what makes it real is the nickel 3d and 6d look incredibly fresh and new. Even comparing the silver ones to coins I have in EF and high VF, they are much sharper and clearer.
A great little addition, I hope you like them.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
The box is in nice condition - it can be quite difficult to find sets with the box in good nick. You have the scarcer variant in the posh box! Most of the 1928 proof sets were issued in green cardboard boxes.
These are really super coins, and the copper coins can be quite spectacular when nicely toned.
The Auckland coin group the other day do an online zoom meeting and I showed them the set and one of the major guys was like “I wanted that set, where did it go” and I said “I was the only bid on it” and he was “Oh I forgot” and I said “You snooze, you lose”.
But yes I love that set and it really enhances a collection of Irish coins.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
