Hammered John Mule penny eBay value check

I have started a thread about this coin before and I have of what seems to be a penny mutilated mule of John from the 12th century short cross coinage.

I decided after research almost drawing a blank to put it up on ebay with a fat reserve to see what interest there is in it. At least this way I will see what kind of value it has without the risk of losing such a unique coin for a low price. I don't actually want to sell it, mainly just see the interest in it. If it goes past the over inflated reserve, then so be it.(which I doubt considering the reserve is £200)

The ebay listing is HERE

I may have to pay a fee, but at least I can get a gauge on value without a headache like I have had.





Anyone else valued a coin like this with a high reserve?

Mule isn't really the proper term. It's a flip-over double strike (both sides having impressions of both dies). The moneyer Ilger worked at London, striking for both John and Henry III (classes 5b,c, 6a,b,c,d, 7a,b).

The problem with reserves is that most eBay users see reserves as a game and won't bid. Also, you'll never know what the high bidder's limit was, only that it was at least one increment above the runner-up.

By the way, class 6c (which I agree is a possibility), is assigned to Henry III rather than John. The Spink catalog doesn't mark the transition very well. 6a and b are John but 6c onward is Henry.

Following. This is really interesting.

How did you come by it?

Quote: "MonaSeaclaid"​Following. This is really interesting.
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​How did you come by it?

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I got it from a joblot of mixed hammered silver about a year ago, most were badly worn on one side and ranged from John to Elizabeth I. A few were in fairly decent grades, which were Edward II pennies.

Quote: "dltcoins"​Mule isn't really the proper term. It's a flip-over double strike (both sides having impressions of both dies). The moneyer Ilger worked at London, striking for both John and Henry III (classes 5b,c, 6a,b,c,d, 7a,b).
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​The problem with reserves is that most eBay users see reserves as a game and won't bid. Also, you'll never know what the high bidder's limit was, only that it was at least one increment above the runner-up.
​
​By the way, class 6c (which I agree is a possibility), is assigned to Henry III rather than John. The Spink catalog doesn't mark the transition very well. 6a and b are John but 6c onward is Henry.
​

The reason I classed it as quote"Mule" is down to the legend seemingly not matching John coinage reverse. Spink 6c seems to class it as Henry III but also stated being issued during the reign of John also, so it could be either.
To be honest, I wasn't really sure what to call it and it has me perplexed as I cannot make out the legend properly, as well is the legend being the same on both sides. But your descriptor would make more sense though, I would concede to that.

I do agree about the reserve not giving actual great results, the idea in my head was to entice those with higher knowledge of hammered to come forward and point out something I cannot find. After this I may well put it up as a "buy it now" with make offer and see what happens, but then there is the point of what price do I put it as. So far the interest is slacking as expected with a reserve coin though.

If I had any hair, this coin would make me pull it out.

Iam not sure if this will help. But this is all I could find. From 2009 Coin year book ,The coins of England ,Scotland ,Ireland, Channel Island and Isle of Man


I really don't have anything on hammered coins

Ended with more watchers than expected but of course this is no where near the same as a regular auction.

I have done a lot more research and I feel confident now what type it is, just as I thought all along.

This has been great to read. I like these silver pennys , but have not the time to read more on them, Someday

I put it up as a buy it now for £115 (remember the auction ended on £30) with "or best offer".... it sold outright within an hour of putting it up and full price was paid!

Really did not expect that, only offers. I do feel a little gutted it has sold though, gives that thought "was it worth more?"

But hey, I made a great profit from it considering how much I paid for the job lot of coins.

They are really interesting to read up on with so many types and identities. A book that I thoroughly enjoy and is a fantastic read about English striking history with hammered coinage, made by Rotographic. A copy is on its way to you now and I am sure you will enjoy it.

I can't believe that! I'm gutted on your behalf. It's a beautiful coin.

I'm glad you got the knowledge out of it, and you're not out the funds. This has been a great read though, thanks for sharing.

Yes English hammered coin are very interesting . I fall in love with them, way back. I saw a TV show from the BBC and they had a short bit on them. Me being a penny nut forever. Found it very odd a silver penny. And never thoughts I would be able have one. While Lee sent me one. An Edward II.

You know I have never taken it off my desk. And still look at it from time to time. But I see it almost every day. I did get the luck of getting another one. Henry III,long cross, from Phil. Very interesting they made the long cross to help to prevent clipping off small parts of the coin, And that Henry in 1257 tried to introduced a gold penny.All I know about that is it was worth 20 silver penny's. And twice the weight of a silver penny. But never really made it, as people would just keep them. Oh the great world of penny's

Oh I love it! These really are beautiful coins.
I like seeing the ones you all have in your collections. Thank you for sharing it!

Since selling this last one I have developed a bit of a hammered bug again, I used to have a great interest but the identifying was a nightmare. More comfortable now so will be getting some more to add to the few I already have.

This is the first one I ever bought and I am not even sure the ID is correct.......

Quote: "ALLRED1950"​Yes English hammered coin are very interesting . I fall in love with them, way back. I saw a TV show from the BBC and they had a short bit on them. Me being a penny nut forever. Found it very odd a silver penny. And never thoughts I would be able have one. While Lee sent me one. An Edward II.
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​You know I have never taken it off my desk. And still look at it from time to time. But I see it almost every day. I did get the luck of getting another one. Henry III,long cross, from Phil. Very interesting they made the long cross to help to prevent clipping off small parts of the coin, And that Henry in 1257 tried to introduced a gold penny.All I know about that is it was worth 20 silver penny's. And twice the weight of a silver penny. But never really made it, as people would just keep them. Oh the great world of penny's

​Funny you should mention Henry's Gold Penny, we have just recently added a listing in the England catalogue here https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces121424.html

Quote: "ALLRED1950"​ I did get the luck of getting another one. Henry III,long cross, from Phil.

In turn I got it from a "coin dealer" who thought it was Mexican. ​

Rick that is great some made it through the melt down. I just learned about this month and did not have the time to look in do it more. You are doing a great job and thank you very much.
Yes Phil and she found a very loving home thank you

Meaning they made the cross long to prevent people from shaving off the edges of the coins to get some bonus silver in their pocket? That's so cool.

PS: I hope there are more photos to come from peoples' collections!

Quote: "MonaSeaclaid"​PS: I hope there are more photos to come from peoples' collections!

Done: ​https://en.numista.com/forum/topic62324.html

So smart. Why didn't I think of that?