1872 1 Boliviano grade and value [solved]

Good morning,

I recently bought a few coins and would like to know what you think the grade and value is.

First is a 1872 1 Boliviano, Bolivia, KM 160:


I hope the quality of the photos suffices.

John

Hi !
I'd give it a low VF.
Kind regards !

Strange coin.
If you look carefully at the second picture, you see it is struck on another coin.
The details are rather crude.
So I think it is a fake
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces38132.html

Could it be a die clash?

I saw the the extra detail on my coin when I was taking the photos. Given that the one on numista also had extra "detail", I figured that it was endemic to this coin. Here is the additional detail on the numista one:


Here are the stats on the one I purchased versus the listed ones in Numista, which are in (parenthesis):

Non-magnetic
coin alignment ( coin alignment)
reeded edge (not specified, but https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces23868.html also had reeded edge)
24.97 gr (25 gr)
35.9 mm (35.5 mm)

Results of density test:
24.97 (weight of coin) / 2.48 (weight of coin when submerged in water) = 10.069
SIlver coins are supposed to be 10.5. Given that this coin is 0.900 silver, this sounds about right...

What do you all think?

Please correct me If I made a mistake...

John

under th between the O and 25 gms are also some details that look like a wing

Quote: "PetrusAscanus"​under th between the O and 25 gms are also some details that look like a wing

​On mine? Yeah. That detail is what I thought you were referring to. This "wings" detail is raised from the metal around it. There is also some raised detail beneath the three leaves below the last "n" of union...

John

I did put the back picture on the front, but there is no match with the underlying picture.
So it is not incuse or die clash (both dies struck together without coin planchet)
Now it is looking for a coin with 'wings' that match the weight and diameter of this coin.
Perhaps Mexico?

I am no expert (I know it is hard to believe, right? ) but Mexico's wings are usually more "organic". The wings on this coin would be more like:

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces15905.html

More geometric.

I've looked and can't seem to find a good match...

I've also looked for the Bolivia referee, but I guess there isn't one...

John

Correct, there is no referee for Bolivia. You can see the list of referees HERE.

After looking and looking for other coins, and driving my wife crazy, I listened to her and mirrored the obverse image of the coin:


The original reverse:


An overlay of the inverted obverse on the reverse:



A small placement correction and zoom on the bottom detail:



A placement correction and zoom of the top detail:



I do think it is a die clash. The bottom detail are not bird wings but rather appear to be sun rays. The top detail is the negative space from the flagpoles.

I realize how much I want this coin to be legit, not because it cost a lot (it didn't) or because it has sentimental value (it doesn't)...I don't know why, but it just feels right. Like the first time you ate bacon, or rode a wave runner...

But, I've also come to terms that it might not be legit, and I am ready to accept it into my collection either way (If it is not legit, it will just stay there with a note and probably be buried with me...much like the rest of my collection...).

Let me know what you think.

John.

If all parameters are correct, why would you think it's fake ?
To me it looks alright.
Tony

Thanks, Tony. I appreciate your input. Aside from just being a little melodramatic on my previous post, there are a few reasons why i was doubtful:

This was the first purchase from this specific seller;

I don't have a lot of experience with Bolivian coins and, mainly,

Petrusascanus' query made me realize that I wilfully overlooked details on the coin that I noticed before, instead of looking for an answer. This made me question if there were any other issues with the coin that I also ignored.

This was an enjoyable experience, as it reminded me to keep my eyes open for any discrepancies.

John