World coins chat: Netherlands

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The Netherlands is a country in Western Europe bordering Germany and Belgium. The country has a population of 17 million. It is known as Holland to many people, but that only refers to the country's western provinces where its political and economical heartlands have historically always been situated.


Flag of the Netherlands. It was already in use for the Dutch Republic next to the Prince's flag that fearured orange and lighter blue.


Location of the Netherlands (orange) in Europe. It is situated at the deltas of major European rivers such as the Rhine and effectively functions as a trading hub for continental Europe.

History
The Kingdom of the Netherlands is the successor state of Dutch Republic that existed from 1581 until 1795, which history and coinage are covered in its own topic.

French period (1795-1814)
The Dutch Republic became a French client state named the Batavian Republic in 1795. The invading French forces were welcomed by a revolutionary anti-Orangist group named the Patriots. The last Stadtholder, William V, fled to England.

In 1806 Napoleon installed his brother Louis (Dutch: Lodewijk) as King of Holland. Louis was quite popular with the population, especially following his attention to the city of Leiden after an explosion of a boat loaded with gunpowder killed more than 150 people in 1807. Louis also moved the capital from The Hague to Amsterdam, although the seat of government never moved. This situation persists even today.

Napoleon was not too happy with the popularity of his brother Louis, and decided to annex the kingdom to the French Empire in 1810. Allied forces defeated Napoleon in 1813 allowing future King William I, son of the Dutch Republic's last Stadtholder William V, to return to the Netherlands and proclaim himself Souvereign Prince. Two years later he became King of the United Netherlands, which included modern-day Belgium and Luxembourg.


The Netherlands until 1830. Belgium became independent in 1830 and annexed the western half of Luxembourg. The western half of the province of Limburg joined the new state, while the eastern half remained Dutch but also part of the German Confederation until 1867.

Belgian Revolt (1830)
In 1830 the Belgians revolted and declared independence. The motivation for the rebels was mostly founded in the difference in language (French vs Dutch) and faith (catholicism vs protestant), as well as the rather autocratic style of governance of William I. On the other hand, Francophone business elites were actually quite happy with the commercially interested king, as well as some portions of the Flemish population. The Dutch intervened to quell the rebellion but backed off not willing to risk a war with France. In 1839 the Dutch accepted Belgian independence, with Luxembourg becoming an independent and neutral state in personal union with the Netherlands.

King William abdicated in favour of his son in 1840. William II feared the revolutions that swept through Europe in 1848 and hastily accepted a liberal constitution, a year before his death. He was succeeded by his son William III who saw all of his male heirs die in young adulthood. A very late second marriage with Emma of Waldeck-Pyrmont resulted in the birth of Princess Wilhelmina, who became the first queen of the Netherlands at the age of 10 in 1890. Her mother Emma acted as regent until Wilhelmina's coronation in 1898.

At the turn of the century The Netherlands was a conservative country which was extremely divided across religious and ideological lines. The rise of parliamentary democracy in 1917 meant that political parties always had to form coalitions. This is the reason why Dutch policies are traditionally a result of compromise and consensus.

Dutch culture and science underwent a second golden age around the turn of the 20th century. Artists such as Vincent van Gogh and multiple Dutch Nobel Prize recipients are from this era.

World Wars (1914-1945)
Until 1945 The Netherlands had always pursued a neutral foreign policy. During the First World War it was spared from a German invasion as the Western Front raged through neighbouring Belgium. While the British navy blockade caused economic hardship, some Dutch enterprises profited a lot from exports to the warring countries. One example is the Dutch-built Fokker triplane, with which Baron von Richthofen (The Red Baron) won many duels in the sky.

But in 1940, during the Second World War, Germany did indeed invade the Netherlands fearing for a British intervention. The battle lasted only 5 days, after which the country was occupied for almost 5 years. The German occupation was initially mild but as the years passed hostilities increased. Allied forces liberated the southern part of the Netherlands in late 1944, but the remainder had to endure a famine and a very harsh winter before German troops surrendered in May 1945.

After-war years (1945-1989)
It took more than a decade to rebuild Dutch infrastructure, but after that period the economy grew rapidly. The 1970's saw the establishment of a welfare state but also economic challenges as the left-wing government's spending went out of control. Dutch political history resembles that of the UK and Germany, with center-right business focused governments winning most elections in the 1980's bringing business-friendly reforms at the expense of welfare programmes.

Modern history (1990-date)
The 1990's saw a Dutch economic boom which continued up to the Dot Com Bust in 2001, followed by a somewhat strange period of political turmoil and a mild recession. The effects of the Global Financial Crisis (2008) were more severe, but almost 10 years later the Netherlands have regained their position as a very dynamic, international and business-friendly climate.

Currency
The first Dutch Gulden was a gold coin minted in 1378 which was based on the Florentine Fiorino d'Oro. As in Dutch this was translated to Gulden Florijn (Golden Florin) the Gulden was locally abbreviated to f. or fl.

Through many iterations debasements it was standardised in 1693 to contain 9.6 grams of pure silver. Guldens remained in circulation during the Batavian Republic (1795-1806) and the Kingdom of Holland (1806-1810). The latter state was the first to abolish the provincial coinage and introduce a national coinage minted in Utrecht, which is still home to the Dutch Royal Mint today. Therefore, coinage of the Netherlands starts in 1806, and not in 1815 with the establishment of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

During the French annexation (1810-1813) the French Franc was made the official currency, and the Utrecht mint started minting Francs, although in low quantities. In practice the old Dutch Republic coinage remained frequently used.

The Kingdom of the Netherlands reformed the Gulden in 1816, abolishing the subdivisions of Stuiver and Duit and introducing the Cent. The silver content of the Gulden remained the same at 9.6 grams, but was lowered slightly to 9.45 grams in 1839. The currency was also subject to a gold standard at 0.60561 grams of pure gold. The silver crisis of 1873 forced the authorities to use a gold standard only at 604.8 mg. With this standard, there were 12.10 Guldens in a British Pound and 2.49 Guldens in a US Dollar.

During the interwar years the gold standard was suspended in 1919 but reintroduced in.1925, only to be suspended again during the Great Depression in 1936. Despite the downturn in the Dutch economy the Gulden remained strong, mostly because the government adhered to strict austerity measures in order to limit debt and the risk of devaluation. By 1940 the Gulden had increased in value to 7.6 Gulden per Pound.

During the German occupation the Gulden was pegged to 1.5 Reichsmark, with the Gulden of unoccupied overseas territories pegged to pre-war rate Pounds or US Dollars. Uncontrolled money printing during the war led to a risk of hyperinflation, but this was countered by demonetising all paper money in October 1945.

After the war the newly organised Gulden was pegged to the US Dollar at a rate of 2.65/$ as it entered the Bretton Woods System. In 1949 it was devalued to 3.8/$, but as the Dutch economy recovered in the years that followed, the Gulden was revalued to 3.62/$ in 1961.

After Nixon abolished the Dollar's peg to gold in 1971 the Gulden's value started floating, mostly following the value of the Deutschmark, but nevertheless declining in value from 1.10 to 0.87 DM in 1985. After that the Gulden was tightly managed to follow the Deutschmark and both were replaced by the Euro in 1999, with banknotes and coins following in 2002. The Euro conversion rate was 2.20371 Gulden.

Coins
Kingdom of Holland (1806-1810)
Coins were minted of 10 Stuivers, 1 Gulden and 50 Stuivers. Mintages were low so they never saw widespread use. Gold ducats, nominally worth 5.25 Gulden, were minted for use as trade coinage.

Mint and privy marks
Dutch coinage retained the practice of using privy and mint marks up to this date. Since 1817 the Utrecht mint has been using the mercury staff as a symbol of commerce. For every director the mint there has been a privy mark. A star was added to the privy mark in cases of an interim director.

Willem I (1815-1840)
Before decimalisation in 1816 Silver Ducats were minted worth 2.5 Gulden. They were still in the name of the United Provinces even though the country had become a kingdom.

From 1817 a new decimal coinage was introduced that consisted of copper ½ and 1 Cent, silver 5, 10, 25 Cents and ½, 1 and 3 Gulden and gold 5 and 10 Gulden. To help the public with the decimalisation the ½ and 1 Gulden showed the amount in Cents as well. Older provincial coinage was demonetised in 1822 but due to coin shortages they remained in circulation for quite some time after that.

The Gulden was debased a tiny amount in 1839, and as a result new 1 and 2½ Gulden with slightly reduced size were introduced.

Willem II and III (1840-1890)
Copper ½ and 1 Cents with a W monogram were continued until 1877. Catalogues have split the types of these coins according to ruler but apart from the privy marks they are all the same. They were replaced by smaller size bronze coins in 1877 with a bronze 2½ Cents added in order to replace the tiny silver 5 Cents coins.

The coins for 5, 10 and 25 were reduced in size but silver content was increased from .569 to .640.

Wilhelmina (1890-1948)
While the bronze coinage was continued, silver and gold coins featured the young queen's portrait until she was crowned at the age of 18 in 1898. Her portrait was again changed to depict her in a cloak from 1910, with the designs of the bronze coins restyled as well.

Copper-nickel round 5 Cents coins were introduced in 1907. They were nicknamed 'evening quarter' as with dim light they were easily confused with similar size silver 25 Cents. As a result square sized coins were introduced from 1910, proving much more popular with the population.

After World War 1 silver content of the ½, 1 and 2½ Gulden was lowered from .945 to .720 following the suspension of the gold standard. To distinguish the new coinage, the portrait was again updated in the 1920's. Gold coinage continued with older specifications but started trading at 25% above their nominal value.

In 1948 the final Wilhelmina series was introduced with bronze 1 and 5 Cents and nickel 10 and 25 Cents replacing the pre-war silver coinage.

German occupation (1940-1945)
As Wilhelmina fled to exile in London, the occupation authorities introduced a 'royalless' zinc series of 1, 2½, 5, 10 and 25 Cents. The coins had no privy mark as the mint master did not wish to be associated with war coinage. Instead of using royal emblems the coins featured other Dutch symbols related to trade and navigation.

Juliana (1948-1980)
The 1948 series was continued with the new queen's portrait in 1950. From 1954 silver Guldens and from 1959 silver 2½ Guldens were added to replace the silver certificates that circulated as banknotes after the war. Nickel replaced silver in 1967 and the size of the 2½ Gulden was reduced.

Beatrix (1980-2013)
It took until 1982 before a coin series featuring the new queen was introduced. The modern designs broke with old traditions with geometric patterns that revealed the value. The 1 Cent coin was not continued and demonetised in 1983. Five years later a new 5 Gulden coin replaced the banknote of the same value. The last Gulden coins were minted in 2001.

Dutch Euro coins were minted from 1999 but only released for circulation in 2002. The Beatrix portrait was continued for this series. A couple of years later the 1 and 2 Eurocents stopped circulating.

Willem Alexander (2013-date)
In 2014 a new Dutch Euro series was released with Willem Alexander, the first male souvereign in the Netherlands since 1890.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pays-bas-1.html
Quote: "jokinen"King William I, son of the Dutch Republic's last Stadtholder William V, to return to the Netherlands and proclaim himself Souvereign Prince. Two years later he became King of the United Netherlands, which included modern-day Belgium and Luxembourg.

People today still forget this. He, and the family of Oranje-(Nassau) proclaimed their self king...
Pleae check my own shop:

https://www.lastdodo.nl/nl/shops/Jelle097

World wide shipping for the real shipping price!
This topic will be revived soon, as I show some of my Historic Dutch coins from Willem III to the Present.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Let me take the honour to revive it :-)




Here are my 5, 10 and 25 Cents of the Willem I era. Too bad I don't own any that were minted in Brussels, but nevertheless I am proud of the conditions these coins are in.
Quote: "jokinen"​Let me take the honour to revive it :-)




​Here are my 5, 10 and 25 Cents of the Willem I era. Too bad I don't own any that were minted in Brussels, but nevertheless I am proud of the conditions these coins are in.
​Wow, you should be, really beautiful coins and conditions!!! Jealous!
jokinen is teasing me with the only small silver denominations I need to complete the post 1815 type set. :D (Other than the 25 cent Willem III)

Here is what I assembled in the previous month (most of them I didn't bother to post on the monthly thread, just the big ones):


The gaps are all coins that don't exist (other than the Willem III 25 cent)!


Silver gulden type set only missing Willem I types!
Lovely,

The Willem II are stunning as he only ruled for 8 years.

I am still kicking myself over the collection I nearly had, but the seller was such a time waster and lazy he backed out of the sale, after I paid - as he could not be "bothered" delivering it 10km down the road after he promised to.

Even worse is now 6 weeks later, he is still trying to sell it and has put the price up on it - no one is buying it or looking at it.

Hence why there has been no "revival" and I apologise.



Here is a 2016 set of Dutch Euro coins as a consolation.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Quote: "jelle"
Quote: "jokinen"King William I, son of the Dutch Republic's last Stadtholder William V, to return to the Netherlands and proclaim himself Souvereign Prince. Two years later he became King of the United Netherlands, which included modern-day Belgium and Luxembourg.
​​
​People today still forget this. He, and the family of Oranje-(Nassau) proclaimed their self king...
​Yes until 1830 he held Belgium and Luxembourg, however in that year as we know, Belgium became an independent monarachy with a German Prince called Leopold created the first King and Luxembourg had its Grand Duke (Not sure who he was in 1830).

I also read that Orange goes back to a 15th century Prince who came from Southern France in an area known as Septimania (Around Narbonne, Camargue and north of Perpignan), yet the first Prince of Orange from the 1580s was fully Dutch and I also learnt that Mauritius was named after the second Prince of Orange - Maurice or Maurits, Mauritz in Dutch.

I also read that King Willem III was known for his short temper and violent outbursts, yet in his last decade (The 1880s he mellowed out) and that when he died in 1890, Emma his wife took over as ruler until Wilhelmina came of age.

I do actually have some Dutch coins, but they are all 1968 - 1998 Guilders (But I have 1c and 5c from the 1950s) and I have 4 x the 5 Guilder coins of 1988/89. They cost nothing now, but must have had some purchasing power back then.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Just to shine a bit more light on Dutch history:
  • King William I remained Grand Duke of Luxembourg after Belgian independence. The personal union existed until William III died without male heirs. Subsequently Duke Adolf of Nassau, out of a job after the Prussian annexation of his duchy in 1866, found new employment.
  • William of Orange's father was a count of Nassau, in Germany. William inherited the Principality of Orange, now in Southern France, but back then part of the Holy Roman Empire, from his first cousin. But through his Nassau inheritance he also owned estates in The Netherlands, where he went to pursue a political career in service of Emperor Charles V, who was also King of Spain. After marrying local nobility and witnessing harsh treatment of protestants (among which some were family members of his beloved wife), William broke his allegiance to his imperial masters and joined the Dutch rebels.
  • King William III had 3 sons from his first marriage but outlived all of them. One of his sons had a miserable life spending most of his time in pubs and brothels (a behaviour pattern some famous people still enjoy in modern times). To save the monarchy, William III arranged a second marriage with the much younger Emma from the tiny German state of Waldeck-Pyrmont. They only had one daughter, for which they needed to change Dutch succession laws in order to be his successor. Otherwise Adolf of Nassau would have succeeded him in 1890.
  • Wilhelmina had an unhappy marriage with a German prince of Mecklenburg that produced only one daughter, Juliana. She was very kind but not very pretty, and it proved difficult to find a suitable spouse. Eventually they found an impoverished German prince, that had some contested claims on the tiny state of Lippe. Neverthless Prince Bernhard became a popular member of the royal family. He also really enjoyed himself outside of his duties.
CassTaylor you have a wonderful collection there, nothing more I could add. Except maybe the tiny Willem III 5 Cents 1850 piece. Those are actually pretty cheap for its age, even in really nice conditions. But of course your crown jewel is the 1898 Rijksdaalder that implicitly commemorated the Wilhelmina's coronation in the year she turned 18. I believe she got married in 1909, explaining the new portrait in her cloak in 1910. Her fourth portrait was one of necessity. Due to unstable prices for gold and silver after WW1 the silver content of Dutch coinage was reduced from .900 to .720. To distinguish the lower grade coins a new portrait and slightly updated reverse design was introduced.

Speaking of the 1898 Coronation Rixdollar, demand for this coin is pretty solid even though I see them auctioned every month or so. They usually seem to fetch around €150 in VF and €200 in XF. You got a decent deal there, that's for sure.
Quote: "jokinen"​Just to shine a bit more light on Dutch history:

  • King William I remained Grand Duke of Luxembourg after Belgian independence. The personal union existed until William III died without male heirs. Subsequently Duke Adolf of Nassau, out of a job after the Prussian annexation of his duchy in 1866, found new employment.

  • William of Orange's father was a count of Nassau, in Germany. William inherited the Principality of Orange, now in Southern France, but back then part of the Holy Roman Empire, from his first cousin. But through his Nassau inheritance he also owned estates in The Netherlands, where he went to pursue a political career in service of Emperor Charles V, who was also King of Spain. After marrying local nobility and witnessing harsh treatment of protestants (among which some were family members of his beloved wife), William broke his allegiance to his imperial masters and joined the Dutch rebels.

  • King William III had 3 sons from his first marriage but outlived all of them. One of his sons had a miserable life spending most of his time in pubs and brothels (a behaviour pattern some famous people still enjoy in modern times). To save the monarchy, William III arranged a second marriage with the much younger Emma from the tiny German state of Waldeck-Pyrmont. They only had one daughter, for which they needed to change Dutch succession laws in order to be his successor. Otherwise Adolf of Nassau would have succeeded him in 1890.

  • Wilhelmina had an unhappy marriage with a German prince of Mecklenburg that produced only one daughter, Juliana. She was very kind but not very pretty, and it proved difficult to find a suitable spouse. Eventually they found an impoverished German prince, that had some contested claims on the tiny state of Lippe. Neverthless Prince Bernhard became a popular member of the royal family. He also really enjoyed himself outside of his duties.

​Thanks! Danke!

Being in the BC, we learn so little about European Monarchies, but lately the Dutch one has really fascinated me. I read about Wilhelmina being exiled to the UK during WW2 and Juliana and Bernhardt going to Canada. I always found it fascinating as April 30th is my Birthday and that is a famous date amongst the Dutch.

Also when I was 10/11, Mum had a Dutch Friend called Aartje (Female) who came to NZ in the 1950s with her parents and she had a huge box of money and I could play with it when she visited and I remembered heaps of large 1 and 2½ guilder coins in it. Hence my interest in all things Dutch. I have only been there once and it was Amsterdam for one night, but loved it we did the canals, ate at an old restaurant and explored the Heeringracht and Oude Kirke.

I have a small collection of stamps and coins, but nothing like you guys.

As far as beauty goes, if it helps the present king is pretty handsome by the standards of his contemporaries, the bald Belgian king, the playboy ruler of Monaco and the need to join hairclubs British royals!
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Thank you both for your compliments, the Dutch type set was something I took on just about a month or two ago, after completing (for the most part, anyway) Spain and Italy. :) My Dutch collector friend got me into that, and I got him into banknotes in return. On our numismatic Discord community, we refer to the big crownsized 2.5 gulden coins as "Rick's dollars" to wind him up. :D

I have some questions jokinen might be able to answer; if the 4th bust (which looks like discount Marge Simpson) was created to distinguish the newly-debased silver issues from the older higher purity coins, then why was the 25 cent coin of the 3rd bust issued until 1925 when the 4th bust gulden issue began in 1921?

Edit: And also, in almost every other language the Dutch currency is referred to as the florin; even Aruba uses that on their coins today. Why was it called gulden by the Dutch?
The Gulden story is easy to explain, and I believe I've done it before in some of my WCC articles before. Once upon a time there was an Italian city (Florence, that is) that was really envious of the Venetian Ducat, so they came up with their own version and called it fiorino d'oro, which was translated into Germanic languages as Gulden Floryn. The Golden Florin was copied a lot in the Rhineland and further downstream to the Low Countries. Over time these Guldens were debased to contain less and less gold until it became a silver coin in the 16th century. It remained the main unit of account of southern German states until 1873 and of Austria until 1892. In Romance languages and in English the term Florin persisted, but in German and Dutch speaking nations the word Gulden was the most frequently used name. The coin's name was even translated into Polish: Złoty. And let's not forget, in Hungarian the Florin became known as Forint.

Now to the British Florin, which was introduced no earlier than the late 19th century. This was an attempt to decimalise the Pound by introducing a coin worth 1/10th of the main unit but could still be expressed in Shillings.

The reason that Aruba dropped the name Gulden is that they preferred the English name.

But now that mystery on that Marge Simpsonesque bust of Wilhelmina, I haven't been able to solve it. I read that the 1921 Half Guldens were actually struck for the Netherlands East Indies, and that there were plans to abandon silver in total, but nowhere I could find why they didn't debase the smaller silvers.
No disrespect, but the Florin was introduced in 1849



And apparently there was an earlier "Gold Florin" introduced as far back as 1344, It seems that King Henry III tried to introduce a Gold Penny of 20 silver pennies in 1239 as a response to the Florentine coins coming into the Kingdom via Dominican friars authorised to loan coins (Mainly to compete with Jews).

In 1344, King Edward III tried to introduce a Gold Florin (Worth 80 pennies or 6/8) coinage with the Florin, its half (Leopard) and quarter (Helm). The coins were a flop as they were too light (Money had to be worth its metal back then) and it was retired, finally in 1347 he introduced a slightly heavier noble coinage based on the Noble (6/8) and its half and quarter. The coinage lasted through to the 16th century, although superseded by Ryals, Crowns and Sovereigns amongst others as the inflation of the 15th and 16th century made each issue of Nobles lighter and lighter.

The florin was bought back in 1848 (Patterns exist)as some reformers like Chadwick and the Chartists wanted a decimal pound based on the French and American decimal systems. The Florin was a token move and no more was done until 1963 when a commission for decimal coinage was set up.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Thanks again- didn't know złoty was Polish for florin! You do learn something new every day. B)

Also, yes, I do actually have the 1850s Willem III 5 cent silver- but I chose not to include it as it would've looked rather lonely up there by itself, since the Willem II ones are super rare, I don't have a Willem I, and the Wilhelmina ones are in nickel not silver.

And another question, from my Dutch friend this time; do you know if metropolitan Dutch guldens circulated in the East Indies, and vice-versa? It would make sense if the Dutch coins circulated in the colonies but the colonial coins not in the Netherlands.
Quote: "CassTaylor"​Thanks again- didn't know złoty was Polish for florin! You do learn something new every day. B)
​Polish złoty means 'golden (adjective)', not florin. By the way, the Free city of Danzig also named their currency 'Gulden'.
Quote: "CassTaylor"​​​And another question, from my Dutch friend this time; do you know if metropolitan Dutch guldens circulated in the East Indies, and vice-versa? It would make sense if the Dutch coins circulated in the colonies but the colonial coins not in the Netherlands.
The Netherlands Indies had their own coinage for denominations < 1/2 guilder and used 'homeland' coins for denominations of 1/2 guilder and up.
Quote: "Moneytane"​​I also read that King Willem III was known for his short temper and violent outbursts, yet in his last decade (The 1880s he mellowed out) and that when he died in 1890, Emma his wife took over as ruler until Wilhelmina came of age.
King Willem II married a daughter of the Russian Tsar Pavel I, Anna Pavlovna, so Willem III was half Russian. His temper and sometimes irratic behaviour have often been attributed to his 'Russian', or rather 'Romanov', blood.

Anna had a polder named after her in 1846. Her name is pronounced in Dutch in a rather awkward way as [ˌɑnaː pəˈloːnaː]. Don't know who started this.
Only one of Anna Pavlovna's grandparents was Russian and all others German, so I guess the temper was just hereditary.

Indeed Złoty means 'golden', but as far as I understood it traces back to the gold Florin just like the Gulden itself. The Danzig Gulden was actually pegged to the Złoty in its time, suggesting a link between those names.

Let me post some older coins from the Dutch Republic later! :-)
Quote: "ArnoV"
Quote: "CassTaylor"​Thanks again- didn't know złoty was Polish for florin! You do learn something new every day. B)
​​Polish złoty means 'golden (adjective)', not florin. By the way, the Free city of Danzig also named their currency 'Gulden'.

Quote: "CassTaylor"​​​And another question, from my Dutch friend this time; do you know if metropolitan Dutch guldens circulated in the East Indies, and vice-versa? It would make sense if the Dutch coins circulated in the colonies but the colonial coins not in the Netherlands.
​The Netherlands Indies had their own coinage for denominations < 1/2 guilder and used 'homeland' coins for denominations of 1/2 guilder and up.

Quote: "Moneytane"​​I also read that King Willem III was known for his short temper and violent outbursts, yet in his last decade (The 1880s he mellowed out) and that when he died in 1890, Emma his wife took over as ruler until Wilhelmina came of age.
​King Willem II married a daughter of the Russian Tsar Pavel I, Anna Pavlovna, so Willem III was half Russian. His temper and sometimes irratic behaviour have often been attributed to his 'Russian', or rather 'Romanov', blood.

​Anna had a polder named after her in 1846. Her name is pronounced in Dutch in a rather awkward way as [ˌɑnaː pəˈloːnaː]. Don't know who started this.
​Well Romanov yes - Russian no. Paul was a ruler of Russia, but his parents Catherine the Great and Peter III were almost entirely German stock. Catherine was married to Tsarevich Peter in 1743 and was formerly Sophie of Anhalt Zerbst. Peter's parents included being a grandson of the fully and last fully Russian Tsar Peter the Great (Who was a massive Europhile anyway) and another German Princess.

These foreigners were mostly German and Danish (Maria Feodrovna was actually Maria Frederika of Denmark whose sister married King Edward VII of England), and usually spoke German and French amongst themselves (Nicholas II's family mostly spoke English!!! and the grand duchesses kept diaries in English, cause despite propaganda labelling Alex as a German bitch, she was more English being born in the UK not Germany). They all generally converted to Orthodoxy in Russia and had to learn it to speak to common people.

Most of the nobility and elite in Russia spoke French or German, Russian was for the peasants and the zeks, even the Jews spoke mostly Yiddish (German with Hebrew borrow words) rather than Russian. This was part of the reason the revolution happened, the people saw these foreigners disrespecting their culture, robbing the treasury and treating them like crap.

Source: The Romanovs - Simon Sebag Montefiore, 2017
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I have one last question about Dutch coinage; it seems around the turn of the 20th century they changed the legend from "KONINGRYK" to "KONINGRIJK". Can anyone tell me if this was of any significance, and if there was any reason to do so, or was it just a modernisation of spelling norms?
Indeed just modernisation of spelling. The modern spelling is actually 'koninkrijk'. That new spelling first showed up on a variant of the 1901 1 Cent but the older spelling was used until 1945.

You have an amazing eye for detail!
Slightly more can be said about the spelling of the word 'Koningrijk', with -g-, on Dutch coins.

The words koninkrijk (kingdom) and koninklijk (royal, adj.) have always been pronounced with -k-. While in the base word koning (king), the k-sound dissappeared at word end, ['koniŋ], it was retained in derivations. This is comparable to English, where the k-sound dissappeared in to know, but was retained in to acknowledge. In both situations, the words with -k- are the original, old pronunciations.

When the first Dutch constitution was drawn up in 1815, the current spelling rules adhered to the principles of uniformity, etymology, and analogy, instead of reflecting pronunciation. And thus, the official name of the country in the constitution became Koningrijk der Nederlanden. This spelling was also used in the Currency Law of the new country, and as a consequence ended up on coins as well.

In 1877, a new spelling law was adopted by the authorities, prescribing koninkrijk. For some reason, the Currency Law was never revised, so that coins had the odd spelling of 'koningrijk' up to WWII because it was like that in the Currency Law.

The 'correct' spelling appears on the 1901 cent only and is paradoxically, though in good right, to be regarded as a design error.
The dual monarchy of the Netherlands and GD Luxembourg ended after William III died. Luxembourg still had the 'Salic law' prescribing that the head of state should be a man. Since Wilhelmina was still minor, Emma (widow of William III) was appointed regent until Wilhelmina was crowned Queen of the Netherlands. Coins from 1892-1897 depict Wilhelmina as a girl.

Luxemburg started minting centimes (of francs) in 1854.

GD Adolphe was first depicted on the nickel 5 and 10 centimes in 1901.

Though a few silver franc patterns were minted, no pre-WW1 silver coins were brought into circulation. These patterns are rare. French or Belgian silver francs with the same value (Latin monetary union) were used in Luxemburg.

Nickel franc and 2 francs coins were minted from 1924 onward. Silver 5 and 10 francs coins followed in 1929 as single year issues.
Gwyde
Status changed to Solved (jokinen, 5 Haz 2019, 00:01)
Status changed to Opened (jokinen, 5 Haz 2019, 00:01)
Quote: "jokinen"​​Beatrix (1980-2013)
​It took until 1982 before a coin series featuring the new queen was introduced. The modern designs broke with old traditions with geometric patterns that revealed the value.


​Below picture shows how the geometric patterns should be interpreted:


Quote: "jokinen"​The latter state was the first to abolish the provincial coinage and introduce a national coinage minted in Utrecht, which is still home to the Dutch Royal Mint today.
In 2020, the Royal Dutch Mint moved to Houten, a town a few kilometres to the southeast.

Quote: "Moneytane"​Danke!
​That's German, not Dutch. In Dutch, it's "Bedankt!" ;)


Another nice fact worth mentioning here: Dutch law states that the national part of a coin (both for circulation and commemorative) must include an image and the name of the ruler and the words "Koning der Nederlanden" (in case of a king) or "Koningin der Nederlanden" (in case of a queen). This may be waived if there is a European commemorative theme coin.​
They say "Pecunia non olet", but I know better...
They say "Pecunia non olet", but I know better...
I've a question, about Dutch coins I thought someone here could clarify:

Since I got my first Dutch Guilders of the last series (eg. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1285.html), I've wondered, why it's medal alignment? Or maybe more the why picture on here is rotated 90 degrees? It kind of annoys me... Should the picture be rotated so it's medal alignment, instead of 90 degrees? Or should another orientation be added on here?

Maybe it's just me, but hey, it's world coin chat: Netherlands, so we can discuss it a bit? :D
I have a soft spot for origami paper cranes.
Read or watch about "Sadako Sasaki and the Thousand Paper Cranes".
Spread a little peace and happiness wherever you go :)
Quote: "Jamtrup"​I've a question, about Dutch coins I thought someone here could clarify:

​Since I got my first Dutch Guilders of the last series (eg. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1285.html), I've wondered, why it's medal alignment? Or maybe more the why picture on here is rotated 90 degrees? It kind of annoys me... Should the picture be rotated so it's medal alignment, instead of 90 degrees? Or should another orientation be added on here?

​Maybe it's just me, but hey, it's world coin chat: Netherlands, so we can discuss it a bit? :D
When Beatrix became Queen of the Netherlands, a design contest was held for the new coins. Dutch Law states that the obverse should contain the head of the King or Queen and the text "Koning der Nederlanden" (King of the Netherlands) or "Koningin der Nederlanden" (Queen of the Netherlands). The reverse should contain the denomination of the coin. Further requirements stated that the reverse should contain the year, mintmark and the mintmaster's mark. Because of all these requirements, the government felt that they didn't want to impose further requirements on the designers, as they were already limited.

​The alignment was just not a criterium for the design of the coins, it's just as simple as that :)

Edit: The tradition for Dutch coins is that the rulers alternately face left and right. That is why the aligment is unconventional.
They say "Pecunia non olet", but I know better...
I think they are medal alignment but maybe we display them incorrectly on Numista.

The 2.5 Gulden I have in my hand looks like this if I go strictly with medal alignment .....



But on Numista we display it like this ....... https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces2153.html



The obverse has been rotated 90 degrees right on Numista. I suppose it makes it look better.
But the coin is either displayed wrong or it is not Medal Alignment, it is not Coin Alignment either.

By the way I submitted those pics above of my 2.5 Gulden coin to improve the one on Numista (See link above)
The referee rejected mine saying the existing images were better? Go figure?

Regards Mike
Master Referee - See my profile for what I collect.
 
Quote: "brismike"​I think they are medal alignment but maybe we display them incorrectly on Numista.

​The 2.5 Gulden I have in my hand looks like this if I go strictly with medal alignment .....



​But on Numista we display it like this ....... https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces2153.html



​The obverse has been rotated 90 degrees right on Numista. I suppose it makes it look better.
​But the coin is either displayed wrong or it is not Medal Alignment, it is not Coin Alignment either.

​By the way I submitted those pics above of my 2.5 Gulden coin to improve the one on Numista (See link above)
​The referee rejected mine saying the existing images were better? Go figure?

​Regards Mike


​It's not medal alignment, the Queen should face left. And I agree with the referee that the contrast on the current pictures is better than the ones you submitted.
They say "Pecunia non olet", but I know better...
The coins are in ↑← alignment simple as that.

My 1754 2 stuiver coin:

MoneytaneNo disrespect, but the Florin was introduced in 1849



And apparently there was an earlier "Gold Florin" introduced as far back as 1344, It seems that King Henry III tried to introduce a Gold Penny of 20 silver pennies in 1239 as a response to the Florentine coins coming into the Kingdom via Dominican friars authorised to loan coins (Mainly to compete with Jews).

In 1344, King Edward III tried to introduce a Gold Florin (Worth 80 pennies or 6/8) coinage with the Florin, its half (Leopard) and quarter (Helm). The coins were a flop as they were too light (Money had to be worth its metal back then) and it was retired, finally in 1347 he introduced a slightly heavier noble coinage based on the Noble (6/8) and its half and quarter. The coinage lasted through to the 16th century, although superseded by Ryals, Crowns and Sovereigns amongst others as the inflation of the 15th and 16th century made each issue of Nobles lighter and lighter.

The florin was bought back in 1848 (Patterns exist)as some reformers like Chadwick and the Chartists wanted a decimal pound based on the French and American decimal systems. The Florin was a token move and no more was done until 1963 when a commission for decimal coinage was set up.

Hello, no offense but I think your statement is wrong. The Dutch florin existed way before the British florin. This image is an example of a Dutch florin from 1614.

sincerely, NumismaticaHollandia.

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