Recently I heard a coin dealer remark that "coins tend to be cheaper in their country of origin", and that got me thinking; I'd like to ask you all how much you think that's true?
Personally it's true that I've seen common Canadian and American coins like Indian head cents being way overpriced in Europe, and I've also seen colonial coins (e.g from the Straits Settlements and Hong Kong) that are much cheaper in Asian flea markets/coin shops. but ridiculously overpriced in say, the UK or continental Europe. It makes sense that coins from that country would be more common and thus less "impressive" to a local dealer.
But conversely, I've seen local dealers who know their stuff having pricey tags on local coins, e.g. all the coin shops in Italy had huge price tags on Italian coins I needed for my type set. It also makes sense that dealers would be more familiar with local coins. I can only conclude that the theory is truer the more low-cost the coin is, and the more expensive the coin is, the more likely it is to be cheaper/underpriced elsewhere instead. Thoughts?
I agree entirely. I've seen circulating and scratched Canadian quarters being sold for $5 or more in Europe when they're worth... 25¢ here.
But if you sell a rare coin at auction, it would be ridiculous not to advertise it as best as possible to "home buyers". Not many people outside Canada would be interested in a VEXATOR token, or if they would be they would usually not be willing to pay the price a Canadian collector would.
Interesting what you say about Straits Settlements. I just got two Straits 50¢, one 1894 VF+ and the other 1896 VF, at a fraction of their catalogue value (CDN $202 total compared to over CDN $1000 catalogue value).
Quote: "CassTaylor"Recently I heard a coin dealer remark that "coins tend to be cheaper in their country of origin", and that got me thinking; I'd like to ask you all how much you think that's true?
Personally it's true that I've seen common Canadian and American coins like Indian head cents being way overpriced in Europe, and I've also seen colonial coins (e.g from the Straits Settlements and Hong Kong) that are much cheaper in Asian flea markets/coin shops. but ridiculously overpriced in say, the UK or continental Europe. It makes sense that coins from that country would be more common and thus less "impressive" to a local dealer.
But conversely, I've seen local dealers who know their stuff having pricey tags on local coins, e.g. all the coin shops in Italy had huge price tags on Italian coins I needed for my type set. It also makes sense that dealers would be more familiar with local coins. I can only conclude that the theory is truer the more low-cost the coin is, and the more expensive the coin is, the more likely it is to be cheaper/underpriced elsewhere instead. Thoughts?
I agree as a generality, but I'd like to point at the fact that I agree that I tend to get waaaay better deals on Italian coins in Canada than in Italy. I bring this down to two reasons, First, Internet coin commerce has not yet well developed there to the point of creating a stable market " real price". Second: I love Krause, it really is screwed up. Notable examples include Napoleonic 5 lire and 1861-2 1 and 2 lire.
I collect anything: If it's Italian or Italian states i collect it even more!
True. One example here in Finland is the 25pen and 50pen silver coins 1865-1917.
1916 25p ones (also XF coins, maybe unc also) are usually sold for 1€.
Bad condition 50p coins often sold for 1€, too.
Good condition 50p coins (1916) usually go for ~1.5 - 2€.
Turku coins you can't possibly even find in other countries, but in Finland you can get a Aurtua (örtug) for about 200€.
Quote: "Camerinvs"I agree entirely. I've seen circulating and scratched Canadian quarters being sold for $5 or more in Europe when they're worth... 25¢ here.
But if you sell a rare coin at auction, it would be ridiculous not to advertise it as best as possible to "home buyers". Not many people outside Canada would be interested in a VEXATOR token, or if they would be they would usually not be willing to pay the price a Canadian collector would.
Interesting what you say about Straits Settlements. I just got two Straits 50¢, one 1894 VF+ and the other 1896 VF, at a fraction of their catalogue value (CDN $202 total compared to over CDN $1000 catalogue value).
To this premise "coins tend to be cheaper in their country of origin", I beg to differ. At least for my case, with Malaysian coin dealers/flea markets/individual sellers.
Coins (circulated, poor grade) from British admin. are usually tagged with not less than MYR10 (conv. rate is roughly 1 USD= MYR 4). Don't even consider asking the price of those coins that still retain their luster, carefully displayed in a glass cabinet...you might have to pawn one of your kidney. I never found North Borneo/Sarawak Rajah coins that is less than MYR100.
To illustrate the purchasing power of MYR, a hefty lunch in Malaysia would cost only around MYR10/USD 2.50 or less.
The mindset of typical coin dealers here is that old coin weighs in gold. I’m talking about ungraded, uncertified old coins. Some that were demonetized less than 10 years ago (MYR1 kris coin). Some are still in circulation (key date/low mintage coins).
The same goes for commemoratives. Coin sellers take this chance to sell such coins at a very unreasonable price. For example, the 25sen Wildlife/Bird Series is sold at USD15-20 (~MYR60-80) per piece. This situation demotivates newbie like me because I can’t afford to buy them, let alone to offer them in my swap list. Another thing, commemorative coins are rarely issued these days. If the Central Bank does, coin brokers would be the first in line to hog them. They even hire personal shoppers to buy the coins for them as commemorative purchase is limited to 1 or 2 pcs per person.
The best I could do is the bargain bin…usually 1 piece MYR 4-5…if my haggling/charm works, I’d get 3 for MYR10. I found few good pieces of Straits Settlements and Netherlands East Indies after few hours of digging.
Yes of course it's true, because most of the country's coins are still in the country of origin.
For example, the pre-decimal New Zealand silver had a few million minted for each year, some were melted down, maybe a few thousand found their way to overseas collectors, but the vast majority are still in New Zealand. I can usually pick up big lots of decent grade silver coins (F-VF) for around melt, sometimes even below melt if I'm lucky.
Thebidding is just over NZ$$100 at the moment (around US$68) but lots like this usually go for around melt value (NZ$220 or around US$140). The book value for those shillings in VF is something like US$10 each which is around NZ$15 each. Try picking them up for US$1.40 each anywhere else in the world.
But yes the premium coins would more likely be expensive in the country of origin because there are more collectors competing for them. There are more likely to be collectors of NZ coin in NZ than there are overseas because most people like to collect the coins of their own country, so when good quality coins come up for sale then they usually fetch good prices.
Yeah it seems to be true. I actually bought a set of NZ silver from neilithicman for way cheaper than it would have cost me in the UK. I assume the reverse would also be true, although UK silver is fairly common worldwide (i assume).
I also go on ebay.de a lot looking for german coins, and they sell for significantly cheaper, and are often cheaper with the EU postage than buying from the UK.
I'm pretty excited that i will be moving to luxembourg and travelling Europe for a few years. I'm curious to see what coins will be common, which will be much cheaper, etc.
Quote: "WHATEVERR"I assume the reverse would also be true, although UK silver is fairly common worldwide (i assume).
Yes, Victorian, Edward and George V coins of the UK are reasonably common in NZ because we actually used UK coins over here until we started minting our own in 1933.
I wonder if that's not just an example of the flea market dealers' ignorance leading to overpricing? Maybe you can compare their rates with those of local Malaysian numismatists. This thread is really more about local familiarity with and knowledge of a coin and it's values than local availability (I mean,of course coins are likely to be more common in their home countries statistically! )
The thing about ignorance in dealers is it can work both ways, in your favour (when they underprice something) or against (when they overprice something). And dealers are usually going to be ignorant in the former way with regard to proportionally underpricing more expensive foreign coins, while ignorance in the latter way will likely be true to proportionally overpricing less expensive foreign coins.
Of course it also works in other ways, e.g. I've seen dealers who have inflated prices for literally everything, foreign or otherwise (read: 40€ for a .500 silver half crown, and 25€ for a common date Victorian British halfpenny!), and dealers who are willing to give you a favourable cut.
@Camerinvs
I believe that might be a case of a more expensive coin being underpriced in a foreign country (assuming you bought those Straits halves in Canada?). Nonetheless, extremely jealous of that type as well; I bought a 1893 coin thinking it was that, but it turned out to be a Hong Kong duplicate instead.
A little case study; looking at my type set of (relatively same condition & all common dates, to keep those control variables similar) silver Spanish 5 peseta coins, I'd like to point out that one of them was purchased in the UK at the extremely inflated price of £40; while another was purchased from a dealer in Singapore for only about 25€, and yet another, in Spain itself for just 14€, where they had baskets full of these coins in the windows of numismatic boutiques. That supports my conclusion (that coins will be cheaper in their country of origin if they're common types, and comparatively overpriced in foreign markets).
In my experience Thailand may be an anomaly. Unless it’s in circulation in mass numbers it’s much cheaper to buy Thai coins outside of Thailand. That includes bank notes. The prices in Thailand seem to be 3-4 times that outside. There are banknotes that I acquired in the USA for $1(31 baht) and I could easily sell them here for 300-400 baht (about $10). The Thai people like anything with their king on it and so coins and banknotes have high demand here which drives up the prices.
Quote: "CassTaylor"@Camerinvs
I believe that might be a case of a more expensive coin being underpriced in a foreign country (assuming you bought those Straits halves in Canada?). Nonetheless, extremely jealous of that type as well; I bought a 1893 coin thinking it was that, but it turned out to be a Hong Kong duplicate instead.
I got them at an auction on eBay where everything starts at US $1.00. The seller is based in Canada. The second highest bidder had put a US $77 maximum bid on each, which is almost exactly CDN $100. Had I not been there, he would have gotten them for about US $26 each (which was the amount of the third highest bid).
What you say about flea markets is exactly what I said about antiques stores on this forum about a year ago. Antiques dealers will rarely let a Canadian large cent go for less than $10. I've seen one selling an Edward VII large cent that had been badly holed in the middle with a nail for --please sit down-- $15. When I pointed out as diplomatically as possible that this wasn't worth even 1$, I was informed that selling items at $1 will not help pay the monthly rent. Those people don't even know there's a market with price lists, catalogues, etc. In Toronto, in the St Lawrence Market, there used to be a coin dealer (not sure if he is still there) who sold everything at least twice the catalogue value. It was very obvious he improvised himself as a coin dealer.
Likewise, in İstanbul, I've only seen one or two guys selling coins in "antiques" stores (mostly imitation antiques for tourists). The coins (mostly Ottoman) seemed to be real, but without enough knowledge about their worth, I didn't even want to get close enough to show some interest and then risk being harassed by the seller.
In other words, you have to know your stuff, but now, with the Internet almost everywhere, if you think you see a great deal on a coin while being in Singapore (the world's most expensive city, but Londoners wouldn't know since London is next on the list), you can just check it out first on NGC to have a sense of the value.
Quote: "blue-m"In my experience Thailand may be an anomaly. Unless it’s in circulation in mass numbers it’s much cheaper to buy Thai coins outside of Thailand. That includes bank notes. The prices in Thailand seem to be 3-4 times that outside. There are banknotes that I acquired in the USA for $1(31 baht) and I could easily sell them here for 300-400 baht (about $10). The Thai people like anything with their king on it and so coins and banknotes have high demand here which drives up the prices.
Sounds interesting, does it apply more or less to older Thai coins and notes that don't have the king on it? E.g. the 1/2 and 1 satang coins, and notes from the 1920s and before.
@Camerinvs
That definitely sounds like fishing for tourist dollars! I was still in the single digits when I last visited Stamboul with my folks, and I remember getting pestered by locals selling all sorts of things; antiques, souvenirs, and weird gimmicks (there was this model train that shot a real flame out the chimney that I thought was really cool, but for some reason the parents weren't exactly thrilled to get it for me ) Either way, still beats the keychains and selfie sticks that get hawked to tourists nowadays instead.
And the advance in technology is definitely a plus in a buyer's favour; I've once had a dealer claim a 1926 Greek 2 Drachmai coin was silver and charge me 7€, but I took it's Numista page out on my phone and showed him the metal field, and I got it for 2€ instead.
Quote: "blue-m"In my experience Thailand may be an anomaly. Unless it’s in circulation in mass numbers it’s much cheaper to buy Thai coins outside of Thailand. That includes bank notes. The prices in Thailand seem to be 3-4 times that outside. There are banknotes that I acquired in the USA for $1(31 baht) and I could easily sell them here for 300-400 baht (about $10). The Thai people like anything with their king on it and so coins and banknotes have high demand here which drives up the prices.
Sounds interesting, does it apply more or less to older Thai coins and notes that don't have the king on it? E.g. the 1/2 and 1 satang coins, and notes from the 1920s and before.
I don’t have a definitive answer on that but I would be willing to bet it applies to the older stuff as well. All that I have seen for sale have been with the kings likenesses. The few people that I know who have older stuff are unwilling to give it up so I imagine that acquiring “dealer stock” is not easy therefore making prices higher.
Quote: "blue-m"In my experience Thailand may be an anomaly. Unless it’s in circulation in mass numbers it’s much cheaper to buy Thai coins outside of Thailand. That includes bank notes. The prices in Thailand seem to be 3-4 times that outside. There are banknotes that I acquired in the USA for $1(31 baht) and I could easily sell them here for 300-400 baht (about $10). The Thai people like anything with their king on it and so coins and banknotes have high demand here which drives up the prices.
Sounds interesting, does it apply more or less to older Thai coins and notes that don't have the king on it? E.g. the 1/2 and 1 satang coins, and notes from the 1920s and before.
I don’t have a definitive answer on that but I would be willing to bet it applies to the older stuff as well. All that I have seen for sale have been with the kings likenesses. The few people that I know who have older stuff are unwilling to give it up so I imagine that acquiring “dealer stock” is not easy therefore making prices higher.
When I was in India, I would stay up at night to bid on Republic India proof sets of the 70s which sold for a few dollars on Ebay versus 10times the value in Bombay. I was very lucky to get the 1970-1979 sets for $15 on average versus shelling out $60-75 on average from Indian dealers. Of course, these sets are now anywhere between $200-400 and there’s very little arbitrage opportunity as Indians started buying on Ebay.com (albeit later than me). It’s a similar case with older Indian coins. I still think better deals can be had outside of India than in India itself, especially if you are concerned about coin grades. However, if you’re lucky enough to find people in small towns who have no idea of value, you can offer them something decent which as far as they are concerned is “big money”. But I would not count on that as likely.
regular Indian commemorative coins which should be in circulation are very hard to come by now and invariably you have to buy them from Indian dealers. However, what might sell for $2 on Ebay.com will more likely sell in India for 30-50c
Quote: "ashlobo"When I was in India, I would stay up at night to bid on Republic India proof sets of the 70s which sold for a few dollars on Ebay versus 10times the value in Bombay. I was very lucky to get the 1970-1979 sets for $15 on average versus shelling out $60-75 on average from Indian dealers. Of course, these sets are now anywhere between $200-400 and there’s very little arbitrage opportunity as Indians started buying on Ebay.com (albeit later than me). It’s a similar case with older Indian coins. I still think better deals can be had outside of India than in India itself, especially if you are concerned about coin grades. However, if you’re lucky enough to find people in small towns who have no idea of value, you can offer them something decent which as far as they are concerned is “big money”. But I would not count on that as likely.
regular Indian commemorative coins which should be in circulation are very hard to come by now and invariably you have to buy them from Indian dealers. However, what might sell for $2 on Ebay.com will more likely sell in India for 30-50c
Do you find many fakes buying in India? China is the worst for faking coins but I have come across many fake Indian coins, mainly the Victorian and George V rupees. I was wondering if they come out of India or whether they're made elsewhere
Quote: "ashlobo"When I was in India, I would stay up at night to bid on Republic India proof sets of the 70s which sold for a few dollars on Ebay versus 10times the value in Bombay. I was very lucky to get the 1970-1979 sets for $15 on average versus shelling out $60-75 on average from Indian dealers. Of course, these sets are now anywhere between $200-400 and there’s very little arbitrage opportunity as Indians started buying on Ebay.com (albeit later than me). It’s a similar case with older Indian coins. I still think better deals can be had outside of India than in India itself, especially if you are concerned about coin grades. However, if you’re lucky enough to find people in small towns who have no idea of value, you can offer them something decent which as far as they are concerned is “big money”. But I would not count on that as likely.
regular Indian commemorative coins which should be in circulation are very hard to come by now and invariably you have to buy them from Indian dealers. However, what might sell for $2 on Ebay.com will more likely sell in India for 30-50c
Do you find many fakes buying in India? China is the worst for faking coins but I have come across many fake Indian coins, mainly the Victorian and George V rupees. I was wondering if they come out of India or whether they're made elsewhere
it can be both. I even have a fake Rs.5 coin dated 2008 - and bear in mind that INR5 is less than 0.20USD. You’d have to be a coin collector to spot it as a fake; it’s quite crude and lighter than the real thing, but no one else in my family could see it at the time haha. There is supposedly a couple of small towns in a god foresaken corner of Uttar Pradesh that are known for churning out modern counterfeits.
That said, the Chinese fake stuff have become so refined, that these days even seasoned collectors in India are having a hard time distinguishing them
Quote: "ashlobo"When I was in India, I would stay up at night to bid on Republic India proof sets of the 70s which sold for a few dollars on Ebay versus 10times the value in Bombay. I was very lucky to get the 1970-1979 sets for $15 on average versus shelling out $60-75 on average from Indian dealers. Of course, these sets are now anywhere between $200-400 and there’s very little arbitrage opportunity as Indians started buying on Ebay.com (albeit later than me). It’s a similar case with older Indian coins. I still think better deals can be had outside of India than in India itself, especially if you are concerned about coin grades. However, if you’re lucky enough to find people in small towns who have no idea of value, you can offer them something decent which as far as they are concerned is “big money”. But I would not count on that as likely.
regular Indian commemorative coins which should be in circulation are very hard to come by now and invariably you have to buy them from Indian dealers. However, what might sell for $2 on Ebay.com will more likely sell in India for 30-50c
Do you find many fakes buying in India? China is the worst for faking coins but I have come across many fake Indian coins, mainly the Victorian and George V rupees. I was wondering if they come out of India or whether they're made elsewhere
the Chinese have even started focusing on the NCLT Rs100, Rs200 and the like. Those are scarily close to the real thing - sometimes even better
Well, it depends. I find coin shops here to be overpriced and lots of coin shops here sell fakes too.
A vf grade 1927 10 cents Straits Settlements coin from KGV costs around 6 to 8 dollars here (4 to 5 euros). However, I have seen this similar coin being sold at 3 euros in a flea market in the UK. This is why I would prefer to buy coins from other collectors here.
Speaking of fakes, coin bins here are often full of fakes from Sarawak, East India Company (S.S) and Netherlands East Indies here. They are pretty easy to identify since the engraving and the diameter of these are usually way off.
Sometimes they’re more expensive in their country of origin. The UK is a prime example. Even the copper and CuNi predecimals sell for quite a hefty amount on eBay. Same with Italy. I’ve heard rumours of silver 500 lire coins being sold for spot in America! Even then, no one values those things. A coin shop I went to in Rome said they melt them down and refine them into bars! But the fascist era silver and gold coins especially sell with huge premiums in Italy. Currently looking to get my hands on some...
Quote: "Geison"I'm from Brazil, some of the American quarters (territories/parks) can reach USD 4,00 here, the cheaper will not sell for less than R$ USD 2,00
Since their are found in circulation, I guess it is super easy to get for face value in the United States.
Y’know, I have an idea for a get-rich-quick scheme...
Quote: "ashlobo"When I was in India, I would stay up at night to bid on Republic India proof sets of the 70s which sold for a few dollars on Ebay versus 10times the value in Bombay. I was very lucky to get the 1970-1979 sets for $15 on average versus shelling out $60-75 on average from Indian dealers. Of course, these sets are now anywhere between $200-400 and there’s very little arbitrage opportunity as Indians started buying on Ebay.com (albeit later than me). It’s a similar case with older Indian coins. I still think better deals can be had outside of India than in India itself, especially if you are concerned about coin grades. However, if you’re lucky enough to find people in small towns who have no idea of value, you can offer them something decent which as far as they are concerned is “big money”. But I would not count on that as likely.
regular Indian commemorative coins which should be in circulation are very hard to come by now and invariably you have to buy them from Indian dealers. However, what might sell for $2 on Ebay.com will more likely sell in India for 30-50c
Do you find many fakes buying in India? China is the worst for faking coins but I have come across many fake Indian coins, mainly the Victorian and George V rupees. I was wondering if they come out of India or whether they're made elsewhere
it can be both. I even have a fake Rs.5 coin dated 2008 - and bear in mind that INR5 is less than 0.20USD. You’d have to be a coin collector to spot it as a fake; it’s quite crude and lighter than the real thing, but no one else in my family could see it at the time haha. There is supposedly a couple of small towns in a god foresaken corner of Uttar Pradesh that are known for churning out modern counterfeits.
That said, the Chinese fake stuff have become so refined, that these days even seasoned collectors in India are having a hard time distinguishing them
Do these counterfeiters only make relatively modern circulating currency or have they started putting out numismatic fakes already?
) Either way, still beats the keychains and selfie sticks that get hawked to tourists nowadays instead. 
