First of all, to my Canadian friends, let me say I'm not picking on you folks eh? It's just that I really love the older Canadian coinage, the pre-1936 coins are as good as any ever produced. Not too fond of the George VI stuff but it's OK, the QEII stuff... now that's where you lose me. The original issues are fine, the earlier Machins too, but who is that distorted old trout on the later issues? It's beginning to look more like Ghadaffi than Queen Elizabeth!
However the decline in artistic standards isn't the main point of this particular rant, although I could go on all night. It's the downright cynical over-production of nonsensical "commemoratives" by the Canadian mint. Since 1992 it seems that they are intent on destroying any credibility they may once have had in the eyes of coin collectors. Does anyone even know how many types of quarters have been produced? It's obscene and it has put me off Canadian coins permanently.
How many budding collectors have been turned off by the realisation that they are being played for fools is anyone's guess. It smacks of some banana republic making VERY RARES FINE SILVER PLATED SPECIAL COLLECTOR LIMNITED EDITION IN A GENUINE LEATHERETTE CASE!!!
I fell in love with coin collecting when I was given a vintage Seaby catalog and spent hours looking at the beautiful engravings hoping that one day I could own something so wonderful. Who the hell is going to be inspired by crap like this:
I see where you are coming from. I personally like the coins made by the RCM. I think that there are too many being made and that there should be a limit to how many different ones are made in a year because no average collector can be expected to buy all of these.
Although I agree they overdo it, many of the RCM issues sell out completely, and I read recently they made a $43 million profit last year. The bumble bee coin was a big seller and the one that glows in the dark might be a very big seller too. (Not that I'd ever buy them from the mint directly).
Once again, Phil, I have to totally agree with you. I have gone on record several times previously objecting to the blatant exploitation of collectors by the Royal Mint and, although I have every 20th century UK Crown and every Copper-Nickel £5 coin, after 2012 I will collect no more. When the £5 coins were first issued, they came out every other year or so. This year alone there have been 4 issues: the Olympic and Paralympic issues, the last Olympic Countdown and the Diamond Jubilee. When you also bear in mind that you can't get £5 for £5 anymore (at least not when they're first released) then it means I spent in the region of £55 to £60 on five pound coins this year alone. I think a country's mint should be responsible for producing the nation's circulating coinage and perhaps also produce collectable verions of those coins (BUNC, Proof, etc.) and leave all the profiteering and exploitation to the private mints.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.
It is clear that the mints will have to curb their production levels and I hope they do so sooner rather than later I'm sick of viewing peoples coin collections in view of buying and finding its an accumulation of commemoratives and does not really contain many coins.
But on the other hand they cant make sales without demand?
But these mints are one of the very few government enterprises to turn a profit, and thus there's every incentive for them to keep cranking out these issues as long as people keep buying them. At some point you'd expect the market to get saturated, but even in this poor economy, people keep buying this stuff for some reason.
I'll give you a couple of even more ridiculous examples. In my World Coins catalogue, while Great Britian takes up 25 pages, the Isle of Man, a tiny, inconsequential "country" takes up 66 pages and Gibralter takes up 54 pages. Apparently the demand for these NCLT coins is insatiable or they wouldn't keep producing them.
pnightingale, I see your point, but I believe (as a kid myself) that issuing all these different types is what makes collecting fun and interesting. Common commemoratives that can be found in change can inspire children to pick up the hobby. Certainly it was these commemorative quarters that sparked my interest as a ten year old to begin collecting coins. I doubt there are many real collectors who buy from the RCM, but I think that with their recent profits the public is taking an interest.
So maybe the RCM is overdoing it with v expensive commems, but the circulation stuff is [in my opinion] great.
Also, I don't see what's wrong with fun glow in the dark or hologram coins
As with other markets, here I see different segments of the numismatic market aimed for different collectors. My daughter is happily absorbing whatever I dislike (e.g., Canadian commemorative quarters, including colored ones, US presidential series, etc.). She's happy, and so I am. Eminem, if you like the commemorative quarters just like my daughter does, then I assume you should like coins with the scalloped edges, or square coins, or coins with a hole. These are her favorite coins so far. In addition, she has Dad who can supply many cool coins at any time because he loves her. I didn't have such an opportunity myself when I was a kid and got my first ten-fifteen coins. Now I can see that Fever Numismaticus is a highly contagious disease.
Coin collecting suffers from the combined attacks of high metal prices, the adoption of electronic payment systems, and the disgusting quantity of fakes, counterfeits, and forgeries in the marketplace.
Compared to these concerns, the proliferation of products offered by world mints, both public and private, is only a minor concern to the survival of our shared and beloved hobby.
I agree with you, that's why I only collect pre-1950 stuff and no commemmoratives. Just coins that were actually used as currency. New Zealand is no better for the amount of commemmoratives produced. Every time Peter Jackson makes a new movie they release a coin to commemmorate it.
Hello, with all the respect you deserve, I don't think that variability kills collectability, it's just the OPPOSITE! Here in Argentina, one of the formers of collecting (Janson) takes EVERY coin difference as a variety, so every time new varieties are discovered. In fact, Cordoba mInt have more than 20 types of the same value and obviously you CAN'T have them all.
I appreciate my collection as a description of the history, social and geographic representation of the countries I collect. I prefer to have incollectable quantities of types than a template where you can put your coins until you say "yeah, I have them all". Of course is only a personal appreciaton, but the title of this thread is a bit overreacted.
On the other hand, I agree that is unnecesary to have commemorations of EVERY thing they thought
Best Regards!
And sorry if it sounds rude, my english is pretty bad.
I agree with this too, although I try to collect at least one of everything, I personally am most fond of pre-1967 coins in Canada, and am definately not very fond of everything 1999- to date, especially the ridiculous amount of different quarters
That coin looks like something from a gameboard. "Oh no, I rolled a 5, now I have to flip the coin of the sea serpent!"Hmmm...I wonder if anyone would be willing to swap it for something...
If you wan to collect Canada coins but are limited I would recommend to collect
1992 25 cents coins. This series are showing the different Provinces of Canada,
One of my favorite. charley716
The sad thing is, many more new people in the UK are getting interested in collecting coins due to the Olympic 50p series. But that is where they stop due to the current high price/over issue situation.
GBP 57.50 for a silver 2012 1oz Britannia! That's bullion UNC not even proof!
I think it's a real shame that things have got the way they are. In principle I actually like the idea of commemorative coins - that is if they were not over-issued, and if they only really commemorated important land mark events. In the past in the UK we have had coins to commemorate ...
women getting the vote,
50th anniversary of the discovery of DNA,
the 60th anniversary of the end of WWII,
the 200th anniversary of the birth of Isambard Kingdom Brunel,
300th anniversary of the union of England and Scotland,
200th anniversary of the abolition of the slave trade,
50 years of the NHS,
the 250th anniversary of Samuel Johnson's English dictionary
None of these I have any problems with, but do we really need 29 Olympic coins? I think two; one for the Olympic and another for the Paralympic games would have been fine.
Quality is most definitely being overshadowed by quantity. It's really sad...I guess they figure that if a collector will buy anything as long as it has the desired mint mark, they mind as well make 50 coins than 3 nice ones. I wanted to get into collecting new coins, as they were cheaper, and rise in price once all the sets have been sold... BUT THERE ARE SO MANY NEW COINS. I don't know where to start... There are almost so many different special coins, that they aren't special anymore. I just toured the Philadelphia mint and their gift shop was loaded with commemoritives. I bought a 2012 America The Beautiful SIlver Proof set though... It looks pretty pretty.
Free thinkers only thrive in history books.
~ Bayside - Howard
Unfortunately it's not just coins. Commemmorative stamp issues have also gone through the roof, it's reached the level where you have to spend a small fortune to get all the issues for a single year.
Quote: leandro87Hello, with all the respect you deserve, I don't think that variability kills collectability, it's just the OPPOSITE! Here in Argentina, one of the formers of collecting (Janson) takes EVERY coin difference as a variety, so every time new varieties are discovered. In fact, Cordoba mInt have more than 20 types of the same value and obviously you CAN'T have them all.
I appreciate my collection as a description of the history, social and geographic representation of the countries I collect. I prefer to have incollectable quantities of types than a template where you can put your coins until you say "yeah, I have them all". Of course is only a personal appreciaton, but the title of this thread is a bit overreacted.
On the other hand, I agree that is unnecesary to have commemorations of EVERY thing they thought
Best Regards!
And sorry if it sounds rude, my english is pretty bad.
As Leandro said, here in Argentina it's offensive that the Mint goes on strike and don't mint anything (catch the language joke... Strike as a protest and Strike as a numismatic concept ). You can see a new coin every... two years? It's really shameful.
What are you talking "aboot", this is the most beautiful coin I have in my igloo. Personally, I can't wait until the day, when the RCM releases a "toque" with a lenticular santa coin embroidered on the front.
On a serious note, I must say that I had to limit my exchanges overseas due to the high demand for our "colourful" Canadian coins. For me, they are a popular tool, which helps me get the coins that I am interested in.
A short retort to pnightingale, I love the way that Americans, every so often, attempt to bring in a coin to replace the $1 bill, it is amusing. We can already see where the presidential dollar mintages are heading.
Quote: torontokuba...I love the way that Americans, every so often, attempt to bring in a coin to replace the $1 bill, it is amusing. We can already see where the presidential dollar mintages are heading.
Yeah, good point.
I think that ending the production of the Peace dollar for so long ruined the use of the dollar coin. I think that dollar coins should be smaller (like the Australian or New Zealand dollar coins) and there should possibly be a bimetallic $2, like Canada. That'd be sweet.
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
the *shyt* type... intended for non-collectors or beginning amateurs (also for kids to stare at and wonder about how they are made) [mostly produced in Winnipeg mint]
the real stuff..... intended for more advanced numismatic hobbyists such as FDCs, BUs etc... [made in Ottawa and little in Winnipeg mint]
the bullion........ intended for investors.
University is time consuming, cherish your free time!
Just for the sake of balance I'd like to tell you all about the Swedish 300kr silver coin minted to commemorate the marriage between the crown princess and the prince.
The silver value of this coin, at 25g pure silver, is about €25,40 and the selling price from the mint was €29.90. That's a modest profit even if just looking at the silver. But add to this the fact that this coin is actual legal tender to the amount of 300 SEK = €34,70! So in fact these coins were sold at a loss of €9,30 per coin!
At the time I realised this, there were 143 coins left in stock, but unfortunately I was completely broke and couldn't cash in on their mistake. I would have made €1330 if I had only the money to invest! And that's if I had chose to exchange them all at the bank; second-hand these coins sold for about 400-450 SEK or above €50.
Quote: hagglundI would have made €1330 if I had only the money to invest! And that's if I had chose to exchange them all at the bank; second-hand these coins sold for about 400-450 SEK or above €50.
Don't talk to me about what ifs, I had some of those myself ! I used to collect stamps, and when the 1996 health stamps came out in New Zealand they had an error on the first printing where they showed a teddy bear incorrectly strapped into a seatbelt. It was only worth a couple of dollars face value and someone offered me a copy of it for $50. I turned them down flat because as a teenager the idea of paying $50 for a $1 stamps was ridiculous. Current catalogue value for the stamp......wait for it........$5,500 D'OH!!!!!!!
In recent years, most mints have increased the number of different coins each year. In addition, the mints have kept mintages low for some coins. This has certainly helped those selling in the secondary market, but it has increased the prices for collectors.
Quote: hagglundI would have made €1330 if I had only the money to invest! And that's if I had chose to exchange them all at the bank; second-hand these coins sold for about 400-450 SEK or above €50.
Don't talk to me about what ifs, I had some of those myself ! I used to collect stamps, and when the 1996 health stamps came out in New Zealand they had an error on the first printing where they showed a teddy bear incorrectly strapped into a seatbelt. It was only worth a couple of dollars face value and someone offered me a copy of it for $50. I turned them down flat because as a teenager the idea of paying $50 for a $1 stamps was ridiculous. Current catalogue value for the stamp......wait for it........$5,500 D'OH!!!!!!!
This is another example of how sellers are benifiting in the secondary market. Whether you agree or disagree depends on whether you are a seller or a buyer.
I agree the RCM in Ottawa is putting out WAY too many variations of collectable coins. I wanted to add some insight to the other comments about the mint still producing profit and selling out. This is a false observation, the mint sells out because the majority of their collectable coins go to dealers subscribed to the masters club program. Many of you may not realize there are 5 levels to the master club - platinum membership based off volume, big dealers purchase so much every month they take priority over all other persons in the program and can buy the products several days earlier than standard level 1-3 master club platinum members, they also receive a large discount on the items which in turn allows them to sell you the same new products as the mint every month for the same price or a slight bit cheaper. Big dealers and their volume orders present the majority of the reason for sell out, not the general population of collectors. Just something to consider
In that case there must be plenty of demand, which I find hard to understand but apparently they sell easily. They can go ahead as they like, I'm not being put off by it and will continue to look for my own historic stuff of what was actual money.
There are a lot of people in my country who started to collect by fishing commemoratives coins from circulation. And continue with some more serious stuff. Therefore I believe mints are helping to the coin collecting, not killing it.
My personal list of scammers from Numista: erniemix, yvain, CassTaylor
One the one hand I get a lot of enjoyment out of trying to get all the coins in a set by sifting through my pocket change. It's a fun and very inexpensive way to collect. And it does get the kids interested as it's within their means to do it. I've seen kids as young as 4 looking through change with their parents and gleefully adding the missing coin to their collection. You don't need an allowance, you don't need any budget. You just need access to a change dish every so often. A few dollars spent in quarters for a year of numismatic family fun is a good investment in my books. So in that way I think the commemoratives are really great.
On the other hand, 12 commemorative coins in quarters in one year alone is a little much, and they've been doing almost that almost every year since ye olde Y2K. It can get a little overwhelming, especially when the mint purposefully limits numbers of one or two in a set to create demand. I think they feel it'll drive sales up, but in my opinion it drives interest down. Anyone who would buy a set is not looking for the coin in their change, they're going to just buy the set. All it's doing is leaving a bunch of kids with a hole in their collection. It's disheartening. In my family we each decided to get one of those cards for filling out the 150th Birthday circulation set. Then the mint started advertising that some of the coins would have drastically fewer numbers than others. We haven't seen any of those coins. Period. And the others have been fewer and fewer as people horde them hoping to either sell them off later or trade them for the elusive rare coins that are limited for no other reason than to get a buzz going.
But to me the real embarrassment is in the sets sold by the mint. One set of coins can have a dozen sets, but each set will be missing one coin, then to get every coin in a series you have to buy two sets. I saved up a little money and decided to get one little 150th set. We've always enjoyed the 1967 set so much I thought having one from this year would be an equally fun talking point for years to come. Well the first set was announced and it was in budget, but didn't have a 50 cent piece. Then the next set was announced but it had a special loonie instead of the real loonie.
In the end I had to make an actual, literal spreadsheet this year to see which set would give me the full series. I ended up purchasing none. Not only was the excitement totally gone but it felt like I was paying them to cheat me. It doesn't feel great to have my national mint actively gouging people and bragging about it.
Though I am taking bets on how much longer they can splash every ad with the words "A MINT FIRST!".
I personally don't collect or buy commemorative issues at all, regardless of country. I do fish them from circulation and exchange them for what used to be real money, that's what interests me.
Not sure if they are killing coin collecting, not sure either if it can be still called numismatics. Goverments trying to make profits, and they are making it. I do wonder how much longer it can stay like this.
I don't see the point in this. Why make a thread about "I hate these crappy commemoratives!"? We all collect different stuff, some collect US pennies, some collect colourful commemoratives, and other collects circulated world coins.
I don't see threads like "Everyone who collects US coins only are no real collectors" or "I hate Euro coins, don't you agree?" and stuff.
If the mints are issuing colourful, glow in the dark coins, who cares? If you like them - buy them, if you don't like them - don't buy them. But don't make a fuzz about it. Apparently people like them since the sell out, time and time again. And Maybe there are new colletors here who recently started off buy getting these cool coins, then they find this thread and realize that the oldtimers don't fully accept them as collectors at all. Well, there we lost a new generation of collectors.
Enjoy the fun of collecting, don't make up rules about what should count as real coins or not. Collect what you like, avoid what you don't like, but don't talk down on peoples' collections and interests.
Quote: "ngdawa"I don't see the point in this. Why make a thread about "I hate these crappy commemoratives!"? We all collect different stuff, some collect US pennies, some collect colourful commemoratives, and other collects circulated world coins.
I don't see threads like "Everyone who collects US coins only are no real collectors" or "I hate Euro coins, don't you agree?" and stuff.
If the mints are issuing colourful, glow in the dark coins, who cares? If you like them - buy them, if you don't like them - don't buy them. But don't make a fuzz about it. Apparently people like them since the sell out, time and time again. And Maybe there are new colletors here who recently started off buy getting these cool coins, then they find this thread and realize that the oldtimers don't fully accept them as collectors at all. Well, there we lost a new generation of collectors.
Enjoy the fun of collecting, don't make up rules about what should count as real coins or not. Collect what you like, avoid what you don't like, but don't talk down on peoples' collections and interests.
You are absolutely right! De gustibus non est disputandum, ladies and gentlemen.
Quote: "ngdawa"I don't see the point in this. Why make a thread about "I hate these crappy commemoratives!"? We all collect different stuff, some collect US pennies, some collect colourful commemoratives, and other collects circulated world coins.
I don't see threads like "Everyone who collects US coins only are no real collectors" or "I hate Euro coins, don't you agree?" and stuff.
If the mints are issuing colourful, glow in the dark coins, who cares? If you like them - buy them, if you don't like them - don't buy them. But don't make a fuzz about it. Apparently people like them since the sell out, time and time again. And Maybe there are new colletors here who recently started off buy getting these cool coins, then they find this thread and realize that the oldtimers don't fully accept them as collectors at all. Well, there we lost a new generation of collectors.
Enjoy the fun of collecting, don't make up rules about what should count as real coins or not. Collect what you like, avoid what you don't like, but don't talk down on peoples' collections and interests.
Thank you sir ...very good thought,I totally agree ,Different generation different likes and Dislikes...
Quote: "ngdawa"I don't see the point in this. Why make a thread about "I hate these crappy commemoratives!"? We all collect different stuff, some collect US pennies, some collect colourful commemoratives, and other collects circulated world coins.
I don't see threads like "Everyone who collects US coins only are no real collectors" or "I hate Euro coins, don't you agree?" and stuff.
If the mints are issuing colourful, glow in the dark coins, who cares? If you like them - buy them, if you don't like them - don't buy them. But don't make a fuzz about it. Apparently people like them since the sell out, time and time again. And Maybe there are new colletors here who recently started off buy getting these cool coins, then they find this thread and realize that the oldtimers don't fully accept them as collectors at all. Well, there we lost a new generation of collectors.
Enjoy the fun of collecting, don't make up rules about what should count as real coins or not. Collect what you like, avoid what you don't like, but don't talk down on peoples' collections and interests.
I'm expressing an opinion not demanding the removal of such coins from the catalog or preventing anyone from buying what they see fit.
If you can't follow the conversation perhaps you should stick to disrupting the swap and trades forum with you snide insinuations about the value or legitimacy of other peoples coins. I don't need any life coaching from the likes of you.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Quote: "pnightingale"If you can't follow the conversation perhaps you should stick to disrupting the swap and trades forum with you snide insinuations about the value or legitimacy of other peoples coins.
Wow, that escalated quickly.
I can follow the discussion very well, thank you. But how am I disrupting the conversation - except from not agreeing with you?
And what gives you the right to straighten up your back and talk down on me? Do you see yourself as a better collector than me?
Quote: "pnightingale"I don't need any life coaching from the likes of you.
1) I haven't giving you any "life coaching". What makes you say that?
2) Please evaluate "likes of you".
Quote: "ngdawa"I don't see the point in this. Why make a thread about "I hate these crappy commemoratives!"? We all collect different stuff, some collect US pennies, some collect colourful commemoratives, and other collects circulated world coins.
I don't see threads like "Everyone who collects US coins only are no real collectors" or "I hate Euro coins, don't you agree?" and stuff.
If the mints are issuing colourful, glow in the dark coins, who cares? If you like them - buy them, if you don't like them - don't buy them. But don't make a fuzz about it. Apparently people like them since the sell out, time and time again. And Maybe there are new colletors here who recently started off buy getting these cool coins, then they find this thread and realize that the oldtimers don't fully accept them as collectors at all. Well, there we lost a new generation of collectors.
Enjoy the fun of collecting, don't make up rules about what should count as real coins or not. Collect what you like, avoid what you don't like, but don't talk down on peoples' collections and interests.
I agree with this. As someone who was collecting in India and now in Canada, its a breath of fresh air from scarcity to an over-supply lol. However, there is no need to bash the RCM. One could simply go to their website, click on "Shop" and then look for "Circulation coins". You need not bother with the other stuff if those are not your thing. To each his own; I'm sure we can live and let live. No need to be holding our noses up in the air for someone who shares the collecting bug, but just collects differently ;-)
Quote: "ngdawa"I don't see the point in this. Why make a thread about "I hate these crappy commemoratives!"? We all collect different stuff, some collect US pennies, some collect colourful commemoratives, and other collects circulated world coins.
I don't see threads like "Everyone who collects US coins only are no real collectors" or "I hate Euro coins, don't you agree?" and stuff.
If the mints are issuing colourful, glow in the dark coins, who cares? If you like them - buy them, if you don't like them - don't buy them. But don't make a fuzz about it. Apparently people like them since the sell out, time and time again. And Maybe there are new colletors here who recently started off buy getting these cool coins, then they find this thread and realize that the oldtimers don't fully accept them as collectors at all. Well, there we lost a new generation of collectors.
Enjoy the fun of collecting, don't make up rules about what should count as real coins or not. Collect what you like, avoid what you don't like, but don't talk down on peoples' collections and interests.
I agree with this. As someone who was collecting in India and now in Canada, its a breath of fresh air from scarcity to an over-supply lol. However, there is no need to bash the RCM. One could simply go to their website, click on "Shop" and then look for "Circulation coins". You need not bother with the other stuff if those are not your thing. To each his own; I'm sure we can live and let live. No need to be holding our noses up in the air for someone who shares the collecting bug, but just collects differently ;-)
I have no choice but to agree with you here. What's collecting? It is whatever you want to collect.
Now as far as the original post question: Are mints killing coin collecting? Based on the replies I see in this post, I don't think they are killing coin collecting, they are still coins, but they are definitely killing my interpretation of what coin collecting is. Note those two words, my interpretation.
Quote: "ashlobo"I agree with this. As someone who was collecting in India and now in Canada, its a breath of fresh air from scarcity to an over-supply lol. However, there is no need to bash the RCM. One could simply go to their website, click on "Shop" and then look for "Circulation coins". You need not bother with the other stuff if those are not your thing. To each his own; I'm sure we can live and let live. No need to be holding our noses up in the air for someone who shares the collecting bug, but just collects differently ;-)
Can't agree with you more here. I for one don't collect these flashy commemoratives, but in small quantities they could be a little bit of to lighten up the collection. If nothing else it catches the eyes of non collectiors, since it sticks out and is slmething different.
A coin is a coin, and if you like it you should get it. How fun would it be if we all collected the same? Let the hobby thrive, I say!
Quote: "alex2037"
I have no choice but to agree with you here. What's collecting? It is whatever you want to collect.
Now as far as the original post question: Are mints killing coin collecting? Based on the replies I see in this post, I don't think they are killing coin collecting, they are still coins, but they are definitely killing my interpretation of what coin collecting is. Note those two words, my interpretation.
For sure I'm wrestling with it too! I have never bought the RCM collector commemoratives for myself. However, I had a few swaps with someone in Croatia who loved the hologram batman coin and was very happy to give me 25Kuna commemorative coins for it!
I collect commemorative euro collector coins from some countries like Germany, portugal, netherlands etc where the coins are technically available for face. A lot of people who thumb their noses at me, but I'm not the slightest bothered about it. However, it is indeed getting too much and I have already stopped Finland. Maybe Portugal is on the chopping block next. Eventually however, I see myself reverting to simple circulation coins (commemorative or not)....only because I want to start scaling back on how much I spend on coins (my emotional satisfaction has been taking a beating when I start tallying up how much I've spent over the year) ;-)
I've been collecting Canadian coins for decades (I'm in the USA) and I feel the RCM is out of control with all the ridiculous coins and sets they're coming out with.
One would have to be a millionaire many time over to collect all the different "coins" and sets the RCM issues each year.
A few years ago, I started collecting loonies but the sheer number of varieties issued yearly made me abandon to quest.
Quote: "ngdawa"I don't see the point in this. Why make a thread about "I hate these crappy commemoratives!"? We all collect different stuff, some collect US pennies, some collect colourful commemoratives, and other collects circulated world coins.
I don't see threads like "Everyone who collects US coins only are no real collectors" or "I hate Euro coins, don't you agree?" and stuff.
If the mints are issuing colourful, glow in the dark coins, who cares? If you like them - buy them, if you don't like them - don't buy them. But don't make a fuzz about it. Apparently people like them since the sell out, time and time again. And Maybe there are new colletors here who recently started off buy getting these cool coins, then they find this thread and realize that the oldtimers don't fully accept them as collectors at all. Well, there we lost a new generation of collectors.
Enjoy the fun of collecting, don't make up rules about what should count as real coins or not. Collect what you like, avoid what you don't like, but don't talk down on peoples' collections and interests.
I'm expressing an opinion not demanding the removal of such coins from the catalog or preventing anyone from buying what they see fit.
If you can't follow the conversation perhaps you should stick to disrupting the swap and trades forum with you snide insinuations about the value or legitimacy of other peoples coins. I don't need any life coaching from the likes of you.
Honestly the original post was simply an opinion and one that I happen to agree with. There isn't really any need to say that you don't see the point. The forum isn't really about whether or not you in particular see the point of any given post. There are many posts I don't really see the need for or simply don't agree with. By and large I move on to the next thing of interest and leave it at that. As regards the topic at hand, I actually collect type sets like the commemorative issues of the German states and the old US halves. Those are the kind of commemoratives I personally like and they have finite ends.
Depending on what is being referred to, it may not a net benefit to issue unending sets of coins. If you are talking about circulation quarters, sure those are good for jump starting collecting. In fact, one of the things that got me collecting was the state quarters that came out in 1999. If on the other hand you are talking about 1 oz holographic Anne Geddes weird looking dressed up children and holographic butterflies or glow in the dark dino bones then sorry no that is not a coin and it is not coin collecting. That is of course my opinion. So the point which you evidently don't see is to share opinions on a numismatic topic.
Not really. The topic is over five years old and remained perfectly civil until you decided to intrude with your ridiculous straw man arguments.
You are hilarious, mate! I don't agree with you, and you get all worked up. Please give example of my "ridiculous straw man arguments".
I absolutely agree with ngdawa here; it seems that he expressed the opinion that this thread seemed to be pointless dumping on certain coins based on subjective liking, and Phil took that personally and got defensive of his own subjective opinion expressed in the thread.
I agree with Phil personally in that I wouldn't touch most modern colourised commemoratives (purely out of lack of interest), but ngdawa's right in essence there's no need to trash certain coins just because they don't appeal to yourself. Live and let live.
Not really. The topic is over five years old and remained perfectly civil until you decided to intrude with your ridiculous straw man arguments.
You are hilarious, mate! I don't agree with you, and you get all worked up. Please give example of my "ridiculous straw man arguments".
I absolutely agree with ngdawa here; it seems that he expressed the opinion that this thread seemed to be pointless dumping on certain coins based on subjective liking, and Phil took that personally and got defensive of his own subjective opinion expressed in the thread.
I agree with Phil personally in that I wouldn't touch most modern colourised commemoratives (purely out of lack of interest), but ngdawa's right in essence there's no need to trash certain coins just because they don't appeal to yourself. Live and let live.
I have no idea why he took my opinion personally, since I didn't direct my post to him. I also don't know why he disgracefully attacked me with personally insults like a maniac, but I'd like to think he got his personal reasons for that. I doubt I will ever know them, nor get an apology, though. The worst part though is that it seems like that kind of behaviour is acceptable since no one intervened.
Anyhow, I'm glad that we, or at least most of us, can agree that we all collect differently, with different themes and in different directions, but we can still respet and enjoy each other's collection and give advices and guidance in the way we see fit and will help each oher to reach our goals for our collections.
Happy collecting, and may be peace once again humbleness take place in the forum.
Quote: "cncote10"In fact, one of the things that got me collecting was the state quarters that came out in 1999. If on the other hand you are talking about 1 oz holographic Anne Geddes weird looking dressed up children [...] no that is not a coin and it is not coin collecting. That is of course my opinion.
May I ask, what is the difference between a 2 dollar Anne Geddes coin and a 25 cents Guam coin? Both are coins, both bare a date, and both have a given denomination. What make you say that one is a coin and worth collecting and the other one is not a coin, and those who collects them are no coin collectors?
I'm just trying to understand the differences between these two numismatic objects, and why one is okay but the other is not.
Quote: "ngdawa"May I ask, what is the difference between a 2 dollar Anne Geddes coin and a 25 cents Guam coin? Both are coins, both bare a date, and both have a given denomination. What make you say that one is a coin and worth collecting and the other one is not a coin, and those who collects them are no coin collectors?
I'm just trying to understand the differences between these two numismatic objects, and why one is okay but the other is not.
The United States 2009 quarter depicting Guam on the reverse is an actual circulating coin carrying a real currency value of 25 cents. It can be exchanged freely at its face value at any United States bank, business, or between private parties.
The Niue Anne Geddes 2 dollars is exactly 1 oz of 99.9% pure silver. It does not circulate as legal tender currency anywhere in the world. It cannot be exchanged at its face value of two New Zealand dollars (and one would be foolish to do so even if it could be). The label of "2 dollars" is meaningless. The reverse label of "1 OZ 999 SILVER" is the only meaningful and important one. I would go so far as to say that it is not a coin. It is a piece of silver bullion designed to look like a coin.
Quote: "Jesse11"The Niue Anne Geddes 2 dollars is exactly 1 oz of 99.9% pure silver. It does not circulate as legal tender currency anywhere in the world. It cannot be exchanged at its face value of two New Zealand dollars (and one would be foolish to do so even if it could be). The label of "2 dollars" is [b]meaningless[/b]. The reverse label of "1 OZ 999 SILVER" is the only meaningful and important one. I would go so far as to say that it is not a coin. It is a piece of silver bullion designed to look like a coin.
Well, that's the thing. It IS legal tender! Even though the silver in the coin is worth more than NZ$2, you can still bring it to the store and pay goods for NZ$2 with it. That's why all this is nonsense. The face value is not meaningless and therefore It is as much a coin as the US state quarters. All coins with a face value the mints are producing are legal tender. It doesn't matter is it's Mount Rushmore or Mickey Mouse on the reverse, it is legal tender.
Quote: "ngdawa"May I ask, what is the difference between a 2 dollar Anne Geddes coin and a 25 cents Guam coin? Both are coins, both bare a date, and both have a given denomination. What make you say that one is a coin and worth collecting and the other one is not a coin, and those who collects them are no coin collectors?
I'm just trying to understand the differences between these two numismatic objects, and why one is okay but the other is not.
The United States 2009 quarter depicting Guam on the reverse is an actual circulating coin carrying a real currency value of 25 cents. It can be exchanged freely at its face value at any United States bank, business, or between private parties.
The Niue Anne Geddes 2 dollars is exactly 1 oz of 99.9% pure silver. It does not circulate as legal tender currency anywhere in the world. It cannot be exchanged at its face value of two New Zealand dollars (and one would be foolish to do so even if it could be). The label of "2 dollars" is meaningless. The reverse label of "1 OZ 999 SILVER" is the only meaningful and important one. I would go so far as to say that it is not a coin. It is a piece of silver bullion designed to look like a coin.
I couldn't agree with you more. I think they are just selling the silver making it look pretty, now that silver is cheap. I wonder what the sale price will be if silver doubles in value, twice as much?
Quote: "ngdawa"=1emWell, that's the thing. It IS legal tender=1em! Even though the silver in the coin is worth more than NZ$2, you can still bring it to the store and pay goods=1em for NZ$2 with it.
Is that true? You can spend one of these silver $2 coins in Niue and shopkeepers will accept it? In the US, American Silver Eagles have a nominal face value of $1, but it's very unlikely that you would find a merchant willing to accept it as payment (unless they recognized it as silver and accepted it knowing it was worth more than $1). I've also heard that Canada's $20 for $20 coins have caused problems because shopkeepers and even banks don't accept them, even though the coins are advertised as legal tender.
If the situation is actually different in Niue, I stand corrected.
Quote: "ngdawa"=1emWell, that's the thing. It IS legal tender=1em! Even though the silver in the coin is worth more than NZ$2, you can still bring it to the store and pay goods=1em for NZ$2 with it.
Is that true? You can spend one of these silver $2 coins in Niue and shopkeepers will accept it? In the US, American Silver Eagles have a nominal face value of $1, but it's very unlikely that you would find a merchant willing to accept it as payment (unless they recognized it as silver and accepted it knowing it was worth more than $1). I've also heard that Canada's $20 for $20 coins have caused problems because shopkeepers and even banks don't accept them, even though the coins are advertised as legal tender.
If the situation is actually different in Niue, I stand corrected.
Well, in the USA they call the cop when someone is trying to pay with a $2 bill, so it's all about knowledge.
NCLT doesnt mean much. If my memory serves right. It can’t be spent where it is issued for (unless the keeper is willing to accept it of course) but the banks make it redeemable for the face value. The uk £20 for £20 was like this but the banks only accepted them for a very mined time !
Any coins labelled as such from the Canadian Mint are legal tender, usable at face value in any transaction. You may have paid $150.00 for it but if you want to use it for the $3 face value you're more than welcome.
Quote: "MonaSeaclaid"Any coins labelled as such from the Canadian Mint are legal tender, usable at face value in any transaction. You may have paid $150.00 for it but if you want to use it for the $3 face value you're more than welcome.
Mona, actually, the banks refuse such coins. We had a post I started a few months back about that. When the price of silver went down over the past couple of years, people went to the banks to cash their "$20 for $20" RCM coins. The banks refused them. Those coins are legal tender but, strangely, non-circulating legal tender, so you're not legally required to accept them in payment.
Quote: "MonaSeaclaid"Any coins labelled as such from the Canadian Mint are legal tender, usable at face value in any transaction. You may have paid $150.00 for it but if you want to use it for the $3 face value you're more than welcome.
Mona, actually, the banks refuse such coins. We had a post I started a few months back about that. When the price of silver went down over the past couple of years, people went to the banks to cash their "$20 for $20" RCM coins. The banks refused them. Those coins are legal tender but, strangely, non-circulating legal tender, so you're not legally required to accept them in payment.
ps: There is only 1/4 oz of silver in the $20 for $20 coins. It was never worth the face value. If there was no premium on those coins, the mint would make no money and have no incentive to issue them. The same applies to $50 for $50 and $100 for $100 coins, too.
Thanks very much for this, HouseOfHam. The article is a little unclear on the legal position of the banks in refusing those coins. I think there is more to it than just being suspicious about a coin's authenticity in trying to explain why the banks can refuse them flatly. Still, this little article is now in my virtual library of numismatic articles and books. FWIW here is a link to that post on the RCM's miscalculations regarding the $20/$20 programme.
One thing I'd like to say is that, although it is true that everyone is free to collect what they like, I find it disheartening to see those pseudo-coins colonizing the pages of Krause and other catalogues so much that you can hardly find the real coins in between. In the case of Canada, it's becoming more and more difficult to know which of the 25¢, 50¢, $1, and $2 coins are circulating or non-circulating. Many commems are meant for circulation now, but many others aren't. Most fortunately, the Charlton catalogue is split in two volumes, so I don't need to pay for a catalogue littered with that stuff. The second volume (non-circulating coins) of the Charlton catalogue is now thicker than the first volume (circulating coins).
Likewise, club newsletters and websites get excited with that stuff. Everywhere you turn, there are pages and pages of coloured pseudo-coins. It's getting out of control. The RCM is getting as bad as the defunct Franklin Mint. Quite embarrassing.
Quote: "MonaSeaclaid"Any coins labelled as such from the Canadian Mint are legal tender, usable at face value in any transaction. You may have paid $150.00 for it but if you want to use it for the $3 face value you're more than welcome.
Mona, actually, the banks refuse such coins. We had a post I started a few months back about that. When the price of silver went down over the past couple of years, people went to the banks to cash their "$20 for $20" RCM coins. The banks refused them. Those coins are legal tender but, strangely, non-circulating legal tender, so you're not legally required to accept them in payment.
yes it is indeed an odd situation.. legal but not legal. However, the Mint had to take them back as they had guaranteed. That’s why the guy changed the denomination to $3
I have this curiosity. From this topic here: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic61614.html
On the one hand we have this war against cash and coins ir at least I do believe it exists. But on the other hand I see these mints all around the globe basically flooding it with these types. Coincidence? It may be just me, but I think it is pretty interesting.
Quote: "alex2037"I have this curiosity. From this topic here:
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic61614.html
On the one hand we have this war against cash and coins ir at least I do believe it exists. But on the other hand I see these mints all around the globe basically flooding it with these types. Coincidence? It may be just me, but I think it is pretty interesting.
I think it's a coincidence mainly because some mints around the world started to see non-circulating coins as a profit-making machine back in the 1980s, and even in the 1970s in some cases (Canada started encapsulating coins in the mid-70s I believe). At that time no-one, I think, could have predicted the challenging future of cash in a digital world.
Yet virtual money existed back in ancient times. The Greeks had banks. The élite would probably hide at home a lot more cash than we do, but most of their wealth was actually converted into land.
In this context, note that it is not the case that before cash, the main way to conduct transactions was through barter. You can rely on currency units without cash. In Homer, big items are often valued in cattle heads. Why not land? Because the poems were composed and sung in the "Dark Age" of Greece, when there was a lot of instability and population movement because of wars and foreign invasions. In that context, you don't invest in land, which you can't take with you if you need to flee, but cattle.
How can they price a set for £32.50 when in reality most People can do that for under £5 or £5-£7 if you decide to use ex BUNC 20ps.
Hi to whoever is reading this. Did you know that TYPEWRITER (on a QWERTY keyboard) is the longest word you can type using only the letters on one row of the keyboard.
Ok, this is sad. $40 for .80p worth of coins that look like they were pulled from circulation? At least with crap uncirculated coins, there is no other way to get them.
Edit: damn autocorrect strikes again
Master Coin Referee
Coin referee for CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN, and SLV.
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Revisor de Numista para monedas de CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN y SLV.
Ok, this is sad. $40 for .80p worth of coins that look like they were pulled from circulation? At least with crap uncircumcised coins, there is no other way to get them.
Well apart from the privy marked 2022 20p I have managed to make my own set for just £1. :)
Hi to whoever is reading this. Did you know that TYPEWRITER (on a QWERTY keyboard) is the longest word you can type using only the letters on one row of the keyboard.
So are they re-minting all of these? Or are they just pulling them out of circulation?
All of them apart from the 2022 with the privy are pulled from circulation because in recently years there has been little demand for new coins because when the old pound coin was in the process of being withdrawn in 2017 a lot of people cashed in the money that they hoarded over the years. Thus most many coins have been minted in small qualities since, apart from a spike in 2019.
But that is no excuse for the royal mint to charge that much even if they used coins broken out of BUNC sets or mint them using the old dies.
Hi to whoever is reading this. Did you know that TYPEWRITER (on a QWERTY keyboard) is the longest word you can type using only the letters on one row of the keyboard.
neilithicI agree with you, that's why I only collect pre-1950 stuff and no commemmoratives. Just coins that were actually used as currency. New Zealand is no better for the amount of commemmoratives produced. Every time Peter Jackson makes a new movie they release a coin to commemmorate it.
However The NZ sets are not circulating, and are taken for collection purposes only--- Not many countries can claim to having produced only 2 circulating coins in the last 70 years NZ can (touch wood)
2015 Anzac
2019 Armistice
Both coloured and minted in CANADA
before that only 3 crowns produced
1935 silver Waitangi
1949 silver Royal visit
1953 non silver Coronation
I applaud this record and hope this record is retained
(Not that I'd ever buy them from the mint directly). 
In addition, she has Dad who can supply many cool coins at any time because he loves her. I didn't have such an opportunity myself when I was a kid and got my first ten-fifteen coins. Now I can see that Fever Numismaticus is a highly contagious disease. 
). You can see a new coin every... two years? It's really shameful. 
We can already see where the presidential dollar mintages are heading. 
